What chance of survival?

[Darryl]

Just opened up a "dead" hive in the apiary. Sodden wet inside and out from recent rains. Mould on frame tops. Loads of dead bees
On checking the frames I discovered around 30 workers and a queen, all moving around slowly - but alive! Plenty of food, no brood.
First feeling is that the colony is a gonner but I can't bring myself to dumping a living queen. I've placed them in a dry 5 frame nuc with drawn comb in case she starts laying . Put nuc in the garage out of the weather. Is there anything else I can do to enhance the chances for them?

 

[emoclewbee]

Just opened up a "dead" hive in the apiary. Sodden wet inside and out from recent rains. Mould on frame tops. Loads of dead bees
On checking the frames I discovered around 30 workers and a queen, all moving around slowly - but alive! Plenty of food, no brood.
First feeling is that the colony is a gonner but I can't bring myself to dumping a living queen. I've placed them in a dry 5 frame nuc with drawn comb in case she starts laying . Put nuc in the garage out of the weather. Is there anything else I can do to enhance the chances for them?

5 frame nuc seems large for 30 bees.
If you have anything smaller or else dummy it down further if possible.
I am not sure what the weather is like where you are, it is still too early to go into hives where I am, but if you had any strong hives which could spare it a frame of emerging brood donated to this hive would probably help.
In summary, I think that is too few bees for that sjze space, Ideally they need more bees, or failing that a smaller space
But you did what can for now, so fingers crossed

 

[Swarm]

Don't even consider wasting a frame of brood from a viable colony on a lost cause, all that does is weaken your viable colony.

 

[Swarm]

Just to add, as I may have sounded harsh, concentrate on your strong colonies and accept that some fail for whatever reason.

 

[Darryl]

Thanks. Adding brood could be ideal, but at this time of year, I can only estimate how strong the other colonies are as to whether any could safely donate. Weather here (NWUK) is still single figures with a cold snap on the way next week. At a guess I would say 2-3 weeks before 1st inspection. Hopefully they might last until then. Meanwhile, I'll dummy down as suggested and hope.....

 

[Darryl]

Just to add, as I may have sounded harsh, concentrate on your strong colonies and accept that some fail for whatever reason.

No, not harsh, just common sense. No wish to risk the viability of other colonies but hoping beyond reason that I can rescue this "lost cause". Realistically a no hoper but .........

 

[ericbeaumont]

Adding brood could be ideal

Only if there were sufficient bees to cover the brood until it emerges. As there are not, it will chill and a lot will die.

 

[markb2603]

I did see a bee whisperer video recently where he took a weak colony on a couple of frames and put it on top of a strong colony with a queen excluder and a sheet of newspaper between them. He seemed to say the bees from the strong colony below would get through the newspaper and join with the colony above and help them get going and provide much needed heat. He said he would be back in a few weeks to split the boxes again into separate colonies and the weaker one would be up to speed. He didn’t actually show this part of the process. Any benefit to trying this? Possibly you could dummy down the top box with insulation to 3-4 frames. Obviously a risk here of a queen getting through the excluder and getting killed.

Edit: that’s the link:

 

[Erichalfbee]

I saved this lot one year but it was mid April and the weather was better

 

[Antipodes]

No, not harsh, just common sense. No wish to risk the viability of other colonies but hoping beyond reason that I can rescue this "lost cause". Realistically a no hoper but .........

You could try putting them in a polystyrene mini mating nuc with some sugar syrup in the feeder area. If you have another stronger colony in a few weeks, shake off some bees into a tub (make sure the queen is not on that frame) and let the older bees fly back to the original donor colony. A donor cupful of the younger remaining bees will be accepted readily into the little mating nuc if tipped at the entrance.... they will gleefully run in. They should bring her back to laying. Keep up the sugar syrup to them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if you had any strong hives which could spare it a frame of emerging brood donated to this hive would probably help.

even emerging brood donated to a group of thirty bees and a queen wouldn't help at all, you're going to end up with a frame of dead and dying brood.

 

[pargyle]

I did see a bee whisperer video recently where he took a weak colony on a couple of frames and put it on top of a strong colony with a queen excluder and a sheet of newspaper between them. He seemed to say the bees from the strong colony below would get through the newspaper and join with the colony above and help them get going and provide much needed heat. He said he would be back in a few weeks to split the boxes again into separate colonies and the weaker one would be up to speed. He didn’t actually show this part of the process. Any benefit to trying this? Possibly you could dummy down the top box with insulation to 3-4 frames. Obviously a risk here of a queen getting through the excluder and getting killed.

Edit: that’s the link:

Why bother ? There comes a point where a colony has diminished to the size that, by trying to bring them back from the brink, all you succeed in doing is weakening or disrupting another colony. I'm a sucker for a lost cause and not really a proper beekeeper but one thing I've learned over the years ... some colonies are destined to fail and unless it is a fate that you have inflicted on them by beekeeper stupidity or ignorance (Overrun with varroa and doing nothing, splitting into too many splits, starving them) then you are best to let them get on with failing or cut your losses and shake them out. Even later in the season ..if they are failing and no obvious reason - really not much point in trying to save them.

A small swarm ? Yes .... get them in a Nuc and sometimes they will surprise you -

 

[Sutty]

I can only think either on top of another colony as above, but good chance of fighting, or open a stronger colony, shake in some nurse bees, add a frame with a small amount of sealed brood, dummy them down & hope for the best.
Or if you have an Abelo 6 frame nuc available which you can divide in 2 in the same box you could divide it and requeen the queenless half with the queen.
Otherwise just accept they won't make it.

 

[madasafish]

I live in N Staffs with a similar climate to OP's.
Even housed in a mini nuc, there is zero chance of survival. (C 300 bees needed to populate one and in this climate I would not bother).
Forecast is a for cold spell.. If they survive that they will be lucky.

Just leave them to die.. unless you shake out onto dry ground (! what is that?) without Q on a dry warm day in front of another hive.

 

[Garry R]

Just opened up a "dead" hive in the apiary. Sodden wet inside and out from recent rains. Mould on frame tops. Loads of dead bees
On checking the frames I discovered around 30 workers and a queen, all moving around slowly - but alive! Plenty of food, no brood.
First feeling is that the colony is a gonner but I can't bring myself to dumping a living queen. I've placed them in a dry 5 frame nuc with drawn comb in case she starts laying . Put nuc in the garage out of the weather. Is there anything else I can do to enhance the chances for them?

I personally do not think that a 30 worker + queen cluster of bees will survive. They won't be able to keep warm, feed the queen, raise brood or forage, Best bet (and a very long shot), is rather than adding a frame of bees and brood would be find a queenless colony in the apiary if you have one and introduce the queen. You might be very lucky and get away with it. I wouldn't waste too much time - better to concentrate on spending the time on building up other colonies and making splits to replace the loss. Sad but pragmatic.........

 

[Antipodes]

I live in N Staffs with a similar climate to OP's.
Even housed in a mini nuc, there is zero chance of survival. (C 300 bees needed to populate one and in this climate I would not bother).
Forecast is a for cold spell.. If they survive that they will be lucky.

Just leave them to die.. unless you shake out onto dry ground (! what is that?) without Q on a dry warm day in front of another hive.

You can bring a polystyrene mini nuc. inside the house (they are already in the OP's garage). With the heaters on, they'll be absolutely plenty warm enough and with sugar feed I'd say they would have an excellent chance of staying alive. It just depends on whether you could be bothered with it. I wouldn't these days unless I was trying to save a valuable queen that was somehow isolated.
In a few weeks in a warmer spell and with access to a strong colony that you might be worried about swarming this season, just a cupful (300) of young bees from a frame gathered during a routine inspection, added to the entrance (after the nuc is moved outside), will happily go into the queen and her entourage.

 

[user 819]

30 bees are doomed , not enough to keep warm and not enough to raise brood. Detrimental to prop them up form another colony , best to pop them in the freezer to humanely put them out of their misery.

What one needs to do is sort out why the hive got so wet in side and remedy the issue. Most of us have had the wettest winter for many a year and fvery ew will have had wet hives so one needs to look at the set up and why/where rain has got in.

 

[Curly green finger's]

@Darryl can you borrow a mini nuc I have a mini nuc which has a few more bees than 30 say 200/300 in my honey room and I plan to do what @Antipodes ( post 16 ) suggested.

History this colony were in a poly nuc and have had nosema they have been sprayed with camomile/ yarrow tea syrup and are being fed honey/pollen and serviving with queen now laying.

The sooner you get some young Bees to join your 30 the better.
Good luck whatever you do

 

[user 819]

Not posh bees then otherwis eone would haveused Earl Grey.

What was wrong with spraying them with thymol solution ?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Not posh bees then otherwis eone would haveused Earl Grey.

What was wrong with spraying them with thymol solution ?

Hemo joking aside, if you have camomile and yarrow dried flowers and a colony with dysentery/nosema try using it instead of thymol ok you will be pleasantly surprised.