Warre Hives

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Joined
Aug 17, 2019
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Location
Bath
Hive Type
National
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As I was browsing some beekeeping books, the Warre Hive was mentioned as a more natural set up for the bees. Does anyone have any experience of them?
 
As I was browsing some beekeeping books, the Warre Hive was mentioned as a more natural set up for the bees. Does anyone have any experience of them?

Yes .. but if you are interested then you need to read David Heaf's translation of the original book by Abbe Warre - Beekeeping for All.

Or have a browse of David's website here:

http://www.dheaf.plus.com/warrebeekeeping/warre_experiment_heaf.htm

What did you want to know ... it's a pretty vast subject.
 
They are an interesting variation on top bar hives .. they are not the easiest of hives to keep bees in - particularly for a beginner.

You really need some mechanism for lifting the boxes if you run them in the way they were intended. Inspections are not that easy - although I know Warre beekeepers who very rarely inspect them to any great degree .. they tend to just tilt the boxes to look for queen cells in the swarming season. Honey crops are taken by crush and strain as they are usually top bar hives.

As I said .. if you are interested there is a lot of information available and I'd recommend finding someone who runs a warre to get some first hand experience. David Heaf regularly does talks at various bee conventions so watch out for that as well - he's a good speaker.
 
As I was browsing some beekeeping books, the Warre Hive was mentioned as a more natural set up for the bees. Does anyone have any experience of them?
There is also the modified warre hive that takes frames, with this hive you can do inspections and it is more manageable when nadiring extra boxes, or having to do an artificial swarm, Paynes sell the frames.
I run several modified Warre with eight frame polystyrene boxes that take DN4 frames. Of all my hives these produce the most honey.
 
I have kept them for ten years. Actually you don’t need a mechanism for lifting boxes if you decide... not to lift the boxes. You don’t need to lift the boxes to check for Queen cells if you decide... not to check to check for queen cells. Don’t over complicate a very simple system. It may not be for you so if that’s the case, look elsewhere.
 
I have kept them for ten years. Actually you don’t need a mechanism for lifting boxes if you decide... not to lift the boxes. You don’t need to lift the boxes to check for Queen cells if you decide... not to check to check for queen cells. Don’t over complicate a very simple system. It may not be for you so if that’s the case, look elsewhere.

Of course, but the way Abbe Warre intended them to be used was to add boxes at the bottom so that the bees always expand downwards and then fill the space above that was previously brood with the honey crop ?

Therefore, you would have to lift the boxes (and I've seen stacks up to 7 or 8 high) in order to put a box at the bottom ? Unless you dismantle the stack which seems a bit disruptive.

Do you run yours differently ? Just asking no hidden criticism.
 
A fair point Pargyle. I was suggesting that you don’t need to lift boxes to check for Queen cells if you are not interested in checking for Queen cells. Yes, I do lift boxes to nadir to increase space and to allow the colony to expand downwards. A quick look with a mirror is all that I do to see if an extra box is needed, no real in depth inspection.
 
...
I run several modified Warre with eight frame polystyrene boxes that take DN4 frames. Of all my hives these produce the most honey.

Did you modify a National poly hive to Warré proportions?

(Sorry about the above text. For some reason it did not show the quote - using Tapatalk.)
 
Pros:
For me, the biggest pro is the ability to put windows in each box, looking along the combs, which work well because there are no wide frame bars blocking the view. You can check all kinds of things without opening the hive. For example, you don't need a thermal camera boy's toy to see where the cluster is located. You can see whether there are stores or whether feeding is needed, the presence or absence of brood etc, and when boxes are ready for harvest.
Simple carpentry skills needed to make a hive and top bars.
No frames to fiddle with each year.
No foundation to fiddle with or worry about.
Good insulation and traditionally no feed hole.- Bees manage ventilation.
Smaller boxes are lighter. Usually 300x300x310mm inside, but up to you.

Cons:
Obviously, comb is destroyed when harvesting honey.
If moving multiple boxes, management is much easier with 2 persons or a lift -see my design using car jacks & costing about £20 on biobees site. https://warre.------------/lift.htm -Scroll down.
Burr comb adhesions need cutting with a right-angled knife tool (DIY), and manipulation needs more attention because unframed combs are fragile.
There is likely to be criticism or derision from "conventional" Beeks who know better.

Also consider a long horizontal type top bar hives - they don't have to have sloping sides. In my experience a Tanzanian works as well as a Kenyan, and are simple to build. Add windows for the same advantages as a windowed Warre.

And there are lots more points which I would remember if I had not imbibed first...
 
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From my experience bees do really well in warre's, beekeepers less so.
Bees enjoy the tall narrow configuration whereas that can become an unsteady tall stack of hard to get to worry for the beekeeper.
The option with frames is quite good but if you're going to go down that route you might as well go national or osb imho.
 
Did you modify a National poly hive to Warré proportions?

(Sorry about the above text. For some reason it did not show the quote - using Tapatalk.)
No I used Paynes Nuc brood boxes with the feeder cut out, they take just eight frames

https://www.paynesbeefarm.co.uk/nuc-mating-hives/brood-box-for-poly-nuc/

I made the initial one to try out the research of Derek Mitchell, and his research is correct when you have a highly insulated column the bees don't use as much honey to produce heat.

http://theconversation.com/to-save-honey-bees-we-need-to-design-them-new-hives-121792

These hives are definitely not for migratory beekeeping as they get to over seven boxes high.
 
As I was browsing some beekeeping books, the Warre Hive was mentioned as a more natural set up for the bees. Does anyone have any experience of them?

You are best choosing one type of hive and sticking with what you are comfortable with..if you start getting different hive formats you will run into problems..a few for example..Artificial swarms/Uniting colonies/moving frames of eggs and brood around your colonies/buying Nucs of bees and the list goes on..i chose the most popular hive format in the UK which is the National and i am more than happy with it..just as well really as i got a bit carried away in the beginning and now have mountains of the stuff..:D
 
How do you guys who keep and promote the use of Warre hives carry out effective checks for brood diseases such as efb.
 
How do you guys who keep and promote the use of Warre hives carry out effective checks for brood diseases such as efb.


You can manage a Warré hive with frames and use them like any other boxed tower hive. (I heard somewhere that’s how Warré’s daughter manages her Warré hives. I don’t know whether that’s true or not.)

The important aspect of a Warré is its compact size. You don’t have to nadir boxes or use top bars.
 
You are best choosing one type of hive and sticking with what you are comfortable with..if you start getting different hive formats you will run into problems..a few for example..Artificial swarms/Uniting colonies/moving frames of eggs and brood around your colonies/buying Nucs of bees and the list goes on..i chose the most popular hive format in the UK which is the National and i am more than happy with it..just as well really as i got a bit carried away in the beginning and now have mountains of the stuff..:D
I have a National hive in use and one ready along with a nuc for this year. I’m not planning on changing anything, but having read about the Warre hives, I was interested to learn a bit more.
 
How do you guys who keep and promote the use of Warre hives carry out effective checks for brood diseases such as efb.

'effective' checks.
There are numerous beekeepers that would not recognise an FB when staring it in the face. This is especially true of EFB. There are as many beekeepers with national hives that do not perform regular checks regardless.

One of the purported linking factors in EFB is stress, and therefore regular deep-dives into the hive may actually be promoting infection. You could therefore ask yourself whether EFB is encouraged by performing the checks you are checking EFB for.

as we all know (?) FBs can live and fester in old comb. Warre Hive systems do not use old comb as the boxes are perpetually recycled.

varroa is 'managed' by letting the hive swarm, thus creating a natural brood break.

The warre hive is good for those that want to keep bees, but not necessarily want to look after them.

I respect the hive and the method for what it is. A way off keeping bees as naturally as possible.
The method is not for me though...
 
'effective' checks.
There are numerous beekeepers that would not recognise an FB when staring it in the face. This is especially true of EFB. There are as many beekeepers with national hives that do not perform regular checks regardless.

One of the purported linking factors in EFB is stress, and therefore regular deep-dives into the hive may actually be promoting infection. You could therefore ask yourself whether EFB is encouraged by performing the checks you are checking EFB for.

as we all know (?) FBs can live and fester in old comb. Warre Hive systems do not use old comb as the boxes are perpetually recycled.

varroa is 'managed' by letting the hive swarm, thus creating a natural brood break.

The warre hive is good for those that want to keep bees, but not necessarily want to look after them.

I respect the hive and the method for what it is. A way off keeping bees as naturally as possible.
The method is not for me though...

I kept TBHs and a warre..

Fine if you don't want to inspect - or treat.
You will not get much if any honey except in a good year .

Inspections are not easy except in framed warre.

If you live in an area with AFB, inspections are a MUST.. for obvious reasons...(Beebase has maps)


My body does not like lifting weights (age) and warres managed as original are impossible without a lift..(pia )

I suspect a horizontal national is more easy to handle.. but have only seen one in use.
 

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