Walk away split.

[BugsInABox]

After a walk away split - should I return to thin the emergency cells?
Neil

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No - just do as it says on the tin - walk away

 

[BugsInABox]

35 dasy today - and no sign of brood. The combs are completely rammed with nectar though. I've spread a couple of the combs out (TBH) but I'm guessign these by now flying bees will nto be able to make comb? Any other options - I've no empty drawn combs to use. :-(
Re the split - I'm hoping there is still time and trying to blame the weird weather, but given they've done so well on the foraging I'm starting to think it's a false hope. Weather next few days perfect for mating really, after mating how long till I should start seeing eggs - is it still a further few days? I'll put a test frame in in a day or two.

 

[drex]

35 days from the split I assume, so a maximum 19 days since emergence. Still time to see eggs, but time is getting on. Put in that test frame.

 

[Beedogg]

Forgive the question: what is a Walk Away Split?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's when you, before seeing signs of swarm preparations, take a nuc of bees,stores and brood from a hive (making sure there's eggs and very young larvae there) and a good shake of bees and moving it elsewhere in the apiary with maybe a bunch of grass blocking the entrance, you then 'walk away' leaving the bees to make themselves a new queen thus giving yourself a new nuc with a young queen but also taking some pressure off the main colony hence discourage them from swarming.
The 'walkaway' bit stems from the fact that once you have removed the nuc it is then left to sort itself out until such time as you think the queen will have mated and started laying.

 

[pargyle]

Exactly that ... Put half of the colony (or whatever split size suits you from the kit you have availabe) into another hive - making sure you have eggs and stores in each side of the split. The queen will be in one half and will continue to lay - the other half will be queenless and they will make queen cells on the eggs in there. New queen gets mated and you have another colony.

Fairly lazy way of making increase and reducing the likelihood of swarming - the downside is that you are probably not going to get a crop from either side of the split ...

Better to Demaree ...although with a Top bar hive this is not really very easy as it's difficult to isolate part of the colony in a TBH. Very easy in a Long Deep Hive though ... One of the downsides of keeping bees in TBH is the limits put on manipulations by the nature of the hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the downside is that you are probably not going to get a crop from either side of the split ...

depends how you do it - if you just take three or four frames of brood out and a couple of shakes of bees it won't have a massive impact on the main colony

 

[pargyle]

depends how you do it - if you just take three or four frames of brood out and a couple of shakes of bees it won't have a massive impact on the main colony

Yes, I agree in a conventional hive and a split to a Nuc ... but with a TBH (as the OP has) you do need a few combs to make it worthwhile ... and TBH don't produce a lot of honey at the best of times - dummying down space in a TBH is a real PITA and TBH Nucs are not often seen.

 

[oliver90owner]

...
- the other half will be queenless and they will make queen cells on the eggs in there. New queen gets mated and you have another colony.

......

They will make queen cells on young larvae, too. The oldest (and likely not the best) will emerge firstest!

The smaller the split (particularly if it is not on the original stand) will have fewer bees and less likely to produce a good queen.

The bees really don't care - all they want is a new queen - but may well build supercedure cells sooner rather than later. No real problem if the queen is still laying, unless it is an unwanted change late in the season when mating can be a bit tenuous....

 

[BugsInABox]

They will make queen cells on young larvae, too. The oldest (and likely not the best) will emerge firstest!

The smaller the split (particularly if it is not on the original stand) will have fewer bees and less likely to produce a good queen.

The bees really don't care - all they want is a new queen - but may well build supercedure cells sooner rather than later. No real problem if the queen is still laying, unless it is an unwanted change late in the season when mating can be a bit tenuous....

I think that’s what happened last year - walk away split, loads of messing (the Q+ left behinds swarmed even after the spit), and the new box limped on till supercedure in July, great queen (in my limited experience) resulted.

This year I did it a bit different - I took the existing queen with the smallest retinue I dared to the new box - believing leaving the Q- half strong would help them requeen.
Is there a better way to make increases with a tbh?
Neil

 

[BugsInABox]

Looking at over night queen deliveries last night and all set for a test comb today. But joy, 3 combs with palm size patches of eggs. Day 41 since split.
Last week they were uniformly chock full of nectar but interestingly they’ve moved things around and a clear brood nest area been emptied out - slightly off centre to the front (and warmer) hive wall. I’d have preferred they make it a bit closer to the entrance but I suppose they know what they are doing.

They still look honey bound to me anything I can do except space some combs out with virgin top bars?

 

[bingevader]

Looks like you've nailed it this year then!
It does knock back the hive and require patience whilst the Q- side re-queen.
It sounds like they are sorting things out for themselves.
You could add in virgin top bars, but I would try not to disturb the brood.

 

[Murox]

Adding a top bar should not disturb anything really.

 

[BugsInABox]

Adding a top bar should not disturb anything really.

Would you spread the brood with it or put it on the edge? They are quite strong despite such a long Q- period. Should be enough to cover the brood - but won’t be many at peak wax drawing age just yet.

 

[Murox]

Would you spread the brood with it or put it on the edge? They are quite strong despite such a long Q- period. Should be enough to cover the brood - but won’t be many at peak wax drawing age just yet.

Keep the brood together. I would add top bars at the end nearest the entrance, simply 'sliding' the rest along.

 

[BugsInABox]

...3 combs with palm size patches of eggs. Day 41 since split.
Last week they were uniformly chock full of nectar but interestingly they’ve moved things around and a clear brood nest area been emptied out - slightly off centre to the front (and warmer) hive wall. I’d have preferred they make it a bit closer to the entrance but I suppose they know what they are doing.

They still look honey bound to me anything I can do except space some combs out with virgin top bars?

A week later and 11 combs with BIAS - which seems a bit extreme. Capped combs at either end so I wonder if I stimulated them to stretch the brood out in some way - can't remember if I moved something around. They seem to have 'de-nectar-blocked' themslves somehow; they are noit flyign as much as they were and I wonder if there is a bit of a dearth on (though bramble on the brink) - they have managed to draw some comb so that may be were some of it went.

 

[hemo]

Prolific queen defo double brood.

 

[hemo]

Forgot this is a TBH, she needs room so if not moving beyond the 11 frames or stopped by a wall of stores spread the frames. If they are induced in to raising QC's they will have to be split again.

 

[Murox]

If you have capped comb at both ends as you said, move the combs nearest the entrance and place them at the other end (or eat them). Put new bars in there place, nearest the entrance. Or have you got entrances at both ends ?