Advice please on split, walk away or buy in another queen

[Timbeez]

Hi All, just a quick question, due to splitting hives honest opinions, walk away split or buy a queen in, temperament of bees is fine, the only benefit I can see if I buy in will save me possible 3-4 weeks as they rear their own queen, secondly how many queen Cells would you leave in,wharQueen would you buy in, mated or artificially inseminated,
all advice welcome

 

[Swarm]

I would get them on double broods and arrange the brood evenly between the two and when ready to split, add a queen excluder between. Easier if you make sure the queen is downstairs, leave them for five days before swapping the excluder for a double screen board with entrance at 180 degrees to lose all the field force and now they realise they have no queen and no viable larvae. Next day, add a frame of eggs and young larvae but return in four days to squash any capped cells as these will be older larvae the bees jumped on and leave them with a well charged open cell. The box can now be removed to a new location.
Or you could allow them to draw out a couple of nice cells and once capped, split them into two smaller mating nucs.
It doesn't cost anything, it works and it's fun.

 

[jeff33]

Or just do a demaree when the hive is strong enough. They will make 1 maybe 2 cells under the supercedure impulse and you won't have to do all the manipulations, especially if your hive is a drive away!!

 

[Ian123]

For simplicity and speed with hopefully increased honey I’d buy from a reputable supplier and soon. There’s no need for an ii queen unless you intend to rear a number of queens yourself……but guess if money is no object
BS Honey and black mountain above should all have some availability.
Done now or soon in reasonable areas splits even small 1s should produce some honey if you’re half competent and sometimes even if your not

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or just do a demaree when the hive is strong enough. They will make 1 maybe 2 cells under the supercedure impulse and you won't have to do all the manipulations, especially if your hive is a drive away!!

that would be my preferred option.
Otherwise, a walkaway split.

 

[Sutty]

As your own bees are of a nice temperament & presuming local mongrels adapted to the local conditions I'd use them to rear a queen. Either walk-away or demaree. I've never used a demaree but everyone seems to rate them.
I'm normally splitting for swarm control!

 

[ericbeaumont]

how many queen Cells would you leave in

If a split is pre-emptive then QCs in the Q- part will be made on the emergency impulse.

Using Swarm's method the Q pheromone will drift up to the top box but bees will likely produce supersedure QCs as the pheromone will be weaker upstairs.

Either sort of QC will not produce a swarm unless they had the idea already when you split. Of course, bees may swarm at this time of year on supersedure, but ordinarily you could leave them to sort out which one to keep.

Seems a waste, so when QCs are sealed you could use any good surplus to make up 3-frame nucs.

 

[Timbeez]

Thanks All, reference the Demaree, Daft ? what do I do with the Drone comb they've built off the bottom of Frames, which are all fully loaded, if I transfer them up top will they not caught by the queen excluder??

 

[ericbeaumont]

caught by the queen excluder?

Yes, so go back every so often and let them out. Alternatively, fashion a temporary top entrance (eke, or hole).

 

[Timbeez]

Yes, so go back every so often and let them out. Alternatively, fashion a temporary top entrance (eke, or hole).

Thank you.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks All, reference the Demaree, Daft ? what do I do with the Drone comb they've built off the bottom of Frames, which are all fully loaded, if I transfer them up top will they not caught by the queen excluder??

demarree board
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/demaree.46464/

 

[Timbeez]

I would get them on double broods and arrange the brood evenly between the two and when ready to split, add a queen excluder between. Easier if you make sure the queen is downstairs, leave them for five days before swapping the excluder for a double screen board with entrance at 180 degrees to lose all the field force and now they realise they have no queen and no viable larvae. Next day, add a frame of eggs and young larvae but return in four days to squash any capped cells as these will be older larvae the bees jumped on and leave them with a well charged open cell. The box can now be removed to a new location.
Or you could allow them to draw out a couple of nice cells and once capped, split them into two smaller mating nucs.
It doesn't cost anything, it works and it's fun.

 

[Timbeez]

Catastrophic, nightmare, absolutely gutted Prepared everything for the Demaree, located queen went to pick her up, missed her first time second time I’m convinced she just flew off, checked hive couldn’t locate her again, came home from work tonight checked again no sign rightly or wrongly I’ve done a split as 11 frames have brood capped and at different stages, Am I best leaving for 4-5 and revisit to see if any QC, any advice would be welcome and I’ve packed one up to move away

 

[ericbeaumont]

she just flew off

Don't worry, she's likely to return provided the entrance is in the same place.

Leave four days and check for eggs.

 

[robinharman]

Catastrophic, nightmare, absolutely gutted Prepared everything for the Demaree, located queen went to pick her up, missed her first time second time I’m convinced she just flew off, checked hive couldn’t locate her again, came home from work tonight checked again no sign rightly or wrongly I’ve done a split as 11 frames have brood capped and at different stages, Am I best leaving for 4-5 and revisit to see if any QC, any advice would be welcome and I’ve packed one up to move away

Not catastrophic at all. One flew off after I marked her, but not clipped, one day last week. Returned a day later and she was back and was promptly clipped.

 

[Timbeez]

Don't worry, she's likely to return provided the entrance is in the same place.

Leave four days and check for eggs.

So right she’s back However split was 6 days ago and cant get to the other hive until tomorrow, ? actions on, I’ve two hives over there ones weak with about two frames of bees, the other is supper strong, would you brake any EQC from the split hive then amalgamate the weaker hive using the news paper technique if queen right or look for a frame of brood with eggs from the strong hive and give eggs and walk away, I’df that makes sense

 

[Timbeez]

Not catastrophic at all. One flew off after I marked her, but not clipped, one day last week. Returned a day later and she was back and was promptly clipped.

Back