Early unite

[BugsInABox]

I've two colonies I want to unite this spring.
One grew huge last year on a queen from an early walk away split, she's huge and an ugly mottled browm/black. Unfortuantely they became increasingly unfriendly. It was my first experience with such a large coloney and producitve queen so I thought I'd give them a chance and see how they were come the spring - but they are already showing signs of not being nice, I want rid.
The second coloney is the left behind's of a very late swarm I lost last year - so also a 2021 Queen. I thougt I'd lost them over winter and am still a little worried I might. Had a quick look today as they had been flying but today weren't (others were). Pleasingly they had plenty of stores but only a very small cluster over four plam size patches of sealed worker brood.

I'd like to requeen the first coloney with the queen from the second; given the fragile state of her retinue I'd like to do it asap.

I think normally the advice would be to make the receiving coloney hopelessly queenless and then put the new queen in under a cage? But that doesnt seem like a good idea when the coloney is barely at crossover.
Would a newspaer unite work. eg put the chosen queen under a cage (in her own hive), then newpaper unite, then move the cage after a week or so?
I'm on top bar hives.

Neil

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think normally the advice would be to make the receiving coloney hopelessly queenless and then put the new queen in under a cage? But that doesnt seem like a good idea

I don't think it's a fantastic idea either - you have two colonies, so just unite, forget about faffing around with caging the queen.
Just one word of caution. If the queen you want to keep is struggling to build up, she's probably still going to struggle after the unite just with more bees.

 

[Boston Bees]

I think there's a reasonable chance you end up with no queens at all. So, you might want to think about what you will do if this happens, given that it's only March (or even if it was early April the same issue would apply i.e. where are you getting a replacement queen from (or drones))?

In other words, I would certainly wait a month. This would also allow you to do a proper assessment of whether the colony is really still grumpy.

 

[BugsInABox]

I think there's a reasonable chance you end up with no queens at all. So, you might want to think about what you will do if this happens, given that it's only March (or even if it was early April the same issue would apply i.e. where are you getting a replacement queen from (or drones))?

In other words, I would certainly wait a month. This would also allow you to do a proper assessment of whether the colony is really still grumpy.

Thanks Boston, I do have a third coloney which is going ok so if the worst happens...
When you say just unte Jenkins - what would the process be? Newspaper?
Neil

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When you say just unite Jenkins - what would the process be? Newspaper?

yes

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks Boston, I do have a third coloney which is going ok so if the worst happens...
When you say just unte Jenkins - what would the process be? Newspaper?
Neil

Is that straightforward in a TBH?

 

[BugsInABox]

If the queen you want to keep is struggling to build up, she's probably still going to struggle after the unite just with more bees.

That's interesting. The impication being it's her quality or lack of it casuign the slow build up? I'd assumed they were small just now 'cos they went into the winter small.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is that straightforward in a TBH?

Takes a bit of ingenuity, but not that difficult to just fix the paper to the sides and top

 

[BugsInABox]

Is that straightforward in a TBH?

Lack of moveable boxes makes it a faf - but can just tack or tape newspaper accross the hive between colonies then move combs accross. Issue can be fliers coming back to the worng hive but I'll close it up and presumably they beg there way in eslewhere. (But I'll do the unite on the site of the larger coloney). I'm mostyl owrried about the larger hive turing on what to them is a new queen. Should I leave it a day or two after pinching their old one?

 

[BugsInABox]

In other words, I would certainly wait a month.

You think it's worth the risk of wating the month given how small the donor coloney is? If they've made it this far do they usually limp on into the spring proper? There are flows here now (weather allowing).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Should I leave it a day or two after pinching their old one

definitely not - unite as soon as one queen goes

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You think it's worth the risk of wating the month given how small the donor coloney is

well, either in a month the queen will have shaped up a bit and will have a decent colony with her, or you'll know she isn't much good

 

[enrico]

Check out post 7 in this thread
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/cross-bees.52107/

 

[BugsInABox]

Check out post 7 in this thread
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/cross-bees.52107/

More food for thought.