VSH Bees. The Future? or a False Dawn?

[Beefriendly]

AFB resistant bees do not exist.

Really?
Been known since the 1930's
http://www.pedigreeapis.org/biblio/artcl/spivakHYG-AFB01en.pdf
https://www.mol-ecol.uni-halle.de/research/genomics/honeybees_6/
etc etc

 

[Fusion_power]

if it was easy it would have been cracked by now

It has been cracked and the way forward is clear. It is also painful because it means all beekeepers have to stop treating for varroa and let natural selection eliminate susceptible colonies. Randy Oliver's approach will work over the long term, but as Juhani Lunden found, there are many steps to the process with two steps forward and one step back. https://naturebees.wordpress.com/2018/09/22/heimo-kangasaho-treatment-free-beekeeper-since-2001/

I have not treated my bees with any varroacide since the winter of 2004/2005. My bees are fully resistant to varroa and show it year by year. They have a lot of negative traits that are amenable to selection. Over time, they are gradually becoming productive and manageable. I am currently raising queens for next year that are nearly comparable to Buckfast in production and temperament.

VSH - defined as a strain of bees that preferentially uncap varroa infested brood and disrupt varroa reproduction - is not a magic bullet. The genes involved come with huge negatives for overall colony productivity. I can readily purchase highly selected VSH breeder queens from John Harbo. http://www.harbobeeco.com/vsh/

A combination of VSH with allogrooming traits seems to be the most effective in my admittedly limited experience. My bees actively groom mites off their bodies and kill them in the process. They also remove any infested larvae. I can purchase queens that practice allogrooming very easily. http://www.carpentersapiaries.com/queen-breeding-program.html

What to expect with varroa resistant bees? My bees are still a tad more aggressive on average than I like. I can manage them without a veil but have to wear one during dearths or when removing honey. They are good foragers having produced a bit over 50 pounds average per colony surplus above winter stores. This is typical for the area I live.

Genetics of my bees are a mix of Ligustica, Mellifera, and a small amount of Scutellata. I brought the Scutellata into the mix in 2015 with some queens from https://beeweaver.com/our-breed/ They have a significant advantage in being both varroa resistant and tolerant of hive beetles. I have not had a colony overwhelmed by beetles since 2016. There are some necessary changes to management practices when beetles are present. I have been selecting away from aggressiveness while pushing for better honey production.

 

[Buzzlodge]

Is anybody following up the avenue of trying to select for the mechanism used by Apis cerana to deal with varroa, as this has obviously proven to be very successful?

Basically, individual worker larvae simply die if their cell is occupied by a varroa mite.

Should we be looking for this characteristic and if so how to recognise it?

 

[Finman]

AFB resistant bees do not exist.

Really?
Been known since the 1930's
http://www.pedigreeapis.org/biblio/artcl/spivakHYG-AFB01en.pdf
https://www.mol-ecol.uni-halle.de/research/genomics/honeybees_6/
etc etc

I know.

 

[Walrus]

I have not treated my bees with any varroacide since the winter of 2004/2005. My bees are fully resistant to varroa and show it year by year.

Sounds great. How often do you do mite counts and what level of losses do you suffer? What do you do if you find a colony that is becoming heavily infested & how do you prevent the spread to other hives? Thanks.

EDIT: Oh, I get it. You treat with thymol or other organic acids? Just not varroacides?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

how often do you have to replace your colonies

 

[Fusion_power]

EDIT: Oh, I get it. You treat with thymol or other organic acids? Just not varroacides?

No, I don't treat with anything. I wrote it that way to indicate that no varroacides are used full stop. Organic acids are voarroacides as far as I am concerned. I also don't treat for anything else though I have been known to squish a few hive beetles with my hive tool when I pull the cover from a colony.

To answer the other questions, I have lost exactly 1 colony since January this year that went queenless. I don't do drastic measures to save queenless colonies figuring it is better to unite with a healthy colony and then split later.

I have replaced the queenless colony and increased my colony count with 5 splits over the last 6 weeks. I can do this because we have a strong fall flow from goldenrod and aster. Two of the splits did not successfully raise queens. One was still strong enough with young bees to raise a queen so it was given a frame of brood from my breeder queen. The other will be united with one of the queenright splits as soon as I am satisfied she is laying and has hatching brood.

Edit to add that I don't do mite counts. There aren't enough in my bees to matter. On a challenge, I opened sealed drone brood a couple of years ago and found a varroa mite on the 127th larva. If drone brood has so few mites, you can bet that worker brood has much less.

 

[Ian123]

With cerana don’t varroa favour drone to an even greater extent so it’s not just dependant on characteristics of the bees?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No, I don't treat with anything. I wrote it that way to indicate that no varroacides are used full stop. Organic acids are voarroacides as far as I am concerned.

One thing I’m not clear about. I can see you are absolutely ruthless in culling colonies not up to scratch in the beginning but what impact do your neighbours bees have on your plan?
I have no way of avoiding my neighbours drones and I am in a very rural area but with a lot of small holders living the dream with bees.
The density of apiaries must be even more critical if you keep bees in the city

 

[Ian123]

Fusion what are you suggesting any comments or info with in regards to ahb in the mix are not really relevant to uk beekeepers. The problem with ahb is they will breed true and that’s a fact I simply point you to the storey of the original introduction and a handful of queens now spread over 2 continents and millions of colonies

 

[Erichalfbee]

.

Edit to add that I don't do mite counts. There aren't enough in my bees to matter. On a challenge, I opened sealed drone brood a couple of years ago and found a varroa mite on the 127th larva. If drone brood has so few mites, you can bet that worker brood has much less.

Larvae?
You won’t find much varroa on larvae in any hive
You have to look at purple eye pupae

 

[Beefriendly]

With cerana don’t varroa favour drone to an even greater extent so it’s not just dependant on characteristics of the bees?

Yes, because as Buzzlodge has mentioned cerana worker larvae kill themselves when parasitised by varroa so they can only breed successfully in drone larvae.
And yes I'm surprised no-one has looked more closely at this aspect in mellifera.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have lost exactly 1 colony since January .

But how many annually over the years, and how many do you have to 'cull' each year to maintain this non treatment 'survival' rate

 

[Finman]

Russian bees and Fuzion's bees have so small winter clusters, that they cannot survivr over winter in our climate.

If they are alive in spring they do not have time to build up foraging colonies.

 

[Ian123]

Yes, because as Buzzlodge has mentioned cerana worker larvae kill themselves when parasitised by varroa so they can only breed successfully in drone larvae.
And yes I'm surprised no-one has looked more closely at this aspect in mellifera.

Yes am aware of that I was trying to make the point it’s a characteristic of the mite also to seek out drone so not necessarily something we can select in bees

 

[SDM]

I just can't get past how fusion has managed a successful varroa breeding programme virtually by accident and maintained whatever genes control the process with just a handful of hives.

 

[Buzzlodge]

Yes am aware of that I was trying to make the point it’s a characteristic of the mite also to seek out drone so not necessarily something we can select in bees

The fact that cerana does it must mean that it is genetically feasible, and that it is an effective strategy against varroa.

Mites seeking out drone brood (if the workers suicide) is of little consequence as numbers are likely not enough to amplify viruses sufficiently and won't affect reproduction as the drones that do mate will be those not affected by a varroa (because they're probebly stronger).

The issue is how to identify queens that have this characteristic so that they can be selected and encouraged...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The fact that cerana does it must mean that it is genetically feasible, and that it is an effective strategy against varroa.

Difference is, ceranae have co-existed with varroa for millenia so have had that time to evolve to their present state.

I haven't got the patience (or the time) to wait for my bees to catch up

 

[Finman]

I just can't get past how fusion has managed a successful varroa breeding programme virtually by accident and maintained whatever genes control the process with just a handful of hives.

It just happened That is it.

 

[Repwoc]

Basically, individual worker larvae simply die if their cell is occupied by a varroa mite.

I understood that varroa jacobsoni are infertile in cerana worker brood. I have read that varroa transplanted from cerana to melifera can reproduce to some extent in worker brood, and varroa destructor can also reproduce in cerana worker brood.

I haven't seen anything about larvae committing suicide - have you got a link to that research?