Very Very Low Store's

[Finman]

The climate in Finland is a whole lot different to what we have in the UK. ?

But you are simply wrong. You just look weather maps of this summer. We have had very same condition now. And same bees.

I have learned lots from Australian, Canadian and from Italian beekeeping.
But NZ guys, Americans or British beeks love to be so proud that they do not accept that someone from nowhere comes and starts to give advices in basic beekeeping. Better to do wrong than admit that someone oversees knows something about beekeeping and get better yields.

And oxalic trickling is invented in Italy and widely used around Mediterranean.
Problem in Britain is that you have breeded such bee strains which have brood over winter. Why they keep brood break in summer but brood the whole winter?


I was banned in NZ forum when I adviced them in oxalic trickling. Reason was that I teached outlaw methods, but then they noticed that oxalic was in their allowed lust. Poor devils. They do not understood that they can be wrong.

You just ventilate too much your tiny hives on your isles. You are mad for condensation even if there us no condensation in hives when hive has brood. When you have moist in your homes, you add ventilation. We add little bit temperature and relative moisture goes lower and keeps things dry.

Tell me Hawk, why 8 frames colony needs same ventilation as 6 box hive?

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[Finman]

. Dave Cushman suggested that nursing bees with Poly hives might be the wrong thing to do.?

I think that Denmark was first countries to use polyhives 30 years ago. 100% out beekeepers use oxalic trickling there. How different is weather of Denmark from that of Scotland?

And the question was, feed the hive, if stores are low. Reduce extra ventilation, if hive does not need the whom bottom open. How these advices depend on climate?

Close the door and window, if your home is too cold. And keep all the time proper ventilation at your home. A beehive has more difficult because bees keep 36C temp in their brood hive, boath in British Isles and in Finland.

When bees try to keep 36C temp in their brood hive, why a beekeeper keep maximum ventilation, and is afraid of condensation in the middle if summer.

 

[Finman]

Doble

 

[user 6228]

But you are simply wrong. You just look weather maps of this summer. We have had very same condition now. And same bees.

I have learned lots from Australian, Canadian and from Italian beekeeping.
But NZ guys, Americans or British beeks love to be so proud that they do not accept that someone from nowhere comes and starts to give advices in basic beekeeping. Better to do wrong than admit that someone oversees knows something about beekeeping and get better yields.

And oxalic trickling is invented in Italy and widely used around Mediterranean.
Problem in Britain is that you have breeded such bee strains which have brood over winter. Why they keep brood break in summer but brood the whole winter?


I was banned in NZ forum when I adviced them in oxalic trickling. Reason was that I teached outlaw methods, but then they noticed that oxalic was in their allowed lust. Poor devils. They do not understood that they can be wrong.

You just ventilate too much your tiny hives on your isles. You are mad for condensation even if there us no condensation in hives when hive has brood. When you have moist in your homes, you add ventilation. We add little bit temperature and relative moisture goes lower and keeps things dry.

Tell me Hawk, why 8 frames colony needs same ventilation as 6 box hive?

.

Haven't seen any experimental proof that condensation on its own ,(as opposed to heat loss) is bad for bees.

 

[Finman]

.
When I search beekeeping knowledge from internet, all research information is from different climate. We have not any own research. Everybody must adapt their knowledge to recent situation and to their own needs.

It is same in Britain. All research is from overseas. But beekeeping humbug does not know climate ranges. That I odd.

 

[Finman]

Haven't seen any experimental proof that condensation on its own ,(as opposed to heat loss) is bad for bees.

I have seen. It adds nosema. It adds mould and swelling out uncapped food.
A colony generates over 10 litres water from respiration. Condensation is a problem, but not in brooding hive.

My own eyes is proof, and if I cannot trust on my eyes, I am badly sick.

I need not to read from book, how much my hives need ventilation. It is clearly to be seen.

 

[pargyle]

The climate in Finland is a whole lot different to what we have in the UK. Some winters it's been too warm and causes the bees to be more active and run out of stores. Also a cooler temp in winter might help to create a brood break needed to treat with oxalic. Dave Cushman suggested that nursing bees with Poly hives might be the wrong thing to do. For those with whole crown boards, do you have any vents in the sides of your rooves?

That is just plain wrong ... Bees actually eat less stores when they are warm and cosy ... they do not use as much energy to keep the colony warm so they actually eat less. I have clear polycarbonate crown boards on all my hives and even in mid winter I can look in and the bees are active over a number of frames .. with a sealed crownboard and top insulation you can feel the heat of the colony (indeed in my highly insulated, triple wall, Long Deep Hive I actually measure and monitor the colony temperature). I find they eat far less of the stores and are able to move around the hive to where the stores are. Cold bees are reluctant to break cluster and if they get stuck at one end of the hive with the stores at the other they will starve.

Dave Cushman did not write the piece on poly hives ... it was Roger Patterson ... who admits that he has NEVER had poly hives .. he still puts matchsticks under his crownboards and has some very bizarre ideas about keeping bees. His highly subjective ideas on beekeeping are very questionable at times and I feel detract from the impartiality that Dave Cushman always maintained. Again - Beginners Beware !

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/polyhives.html

 

[Finman]

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Huge story. A man of opinions. Polyhives are warmer and they have more brood in Winter!

Roger does not know how bees prepare themselves for Winter. How shortening days and short of pollen inform that summer is over. Finally bees tear out the last brood and they form a Winter cluster. First sign is that they kill drones.

Scandinavia has allways used insulated wooden hives and now 30 years polyhives. Warm does not make bees make brood. It is pollen.



If hives make brood in Winter, they will starve Before Cristmas. And nothing can save hive then. They will dwindle away in 8 months winter even if you give to them honey and pollen.

Paradise honey sells nowadays polyhives to Australia.... To ptotect colony agaist hot Day!
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[pargyle]

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Huge rubbish! Polyhives are warmer and they have more brood in Winter!
Roger does not know how bees prepare themselves to Winter. How shortening day and short of pollen inform that summer is over. Finally bees tear out the last brood and they form a Winter cluster.

Scandinavia has allways used insulated wooden hives and now 30 years polyhives. Warm does not make bees make brood. It is pollen.

If hives make brood in Winter, they will starve begore Cristmas. And nothing can save hive then. They will dwindle away in 8 months winter even if you give to them honey and pollen.

Wow ... You are spot on ! Are we agreeing on something Finnie ? That's a novelty !

 

[Finman]

Wow ... You are spot on ! Are we agreeing on something Finnie ? That's a novelty !

With 2 years experience and with 53 years experience....?. Perhaps there are beekeeping something to where we can togethet trust on.

Like some want to weight 1 kg sugar package to see himself how much 1 kg weights.

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[stucat]

That is just plain wrong ... Bees actually eat less stores when they are warm and cosy ... they do not use as much energy to keep the colony warm so they actually eat less. I have clear polycarbonate crown boards on all my hives and even in mid winter I can look in and the bees are active over a number of frames .. with a sealed crownboard and top insulation you can feel the heat of the colony (indeed in my highly insulated, triple wall, Long Deep Hive I actually measure and monitor the colony temperature). I find they eat far less of the stores and are able to move around the hive to where the stores are. Cold bees are reluctant to break cluster and if they get stuck at one end of the hive with the stores at the other they will sta

rl]

Just a thought but I think he meant, warm enough not to cluster and start flying.

If they do that in winter they starve fast.

 

[Into the lions den]

And oxalic trickling is invented in Italy and widely used around Mediterranean.
Problem in Britain is that you have breeded such bee strains which have brood over winter. Why they keep brood break in summer but brood the whole winter?
.

You will not find ANY brood in most of our bees from mid October until just after Christmas. We have many colonies (a majority) that have no brood by 15th Sept or so. Only exception is a late young queen or a colony getting its winter syrup late.

We also do not get a mid summer brood break, unless they get a prolonged nectar dearth and the beekeeper fails to feed them. There is always plenty pollen round here if the bees can get out for it, even late into autumn.

The Atlantic maritime climate can give the southern regions of the UK a longer tail of brood in the autumn than we get in Scotland, as they have very mild conditions and various flora, especially ivy which can go right on till the bees can fly no more.

Oxalic acid trickling works perfectly well here. Only on a few colonies do you have brood present that renders it less effective. We apply it in the two weeks before Christmas.

 

[Into the lions den]

How different is weather of Denmark from that of Scotland?

Actually strictly by latitude you would thin they were similar. They are not radically different but different enough to be significant.

Weather systems in the N.E. Atlantic tend to travel in a SW to NE direction, driven along by semi permanent high pressure at the Azores and low pressure vaguely situated around Iceland. (It varies about but that is the long term average)

The statistics show that central Jutland, which is on a similar latitude to south central Scotland, actually has a climate more like East Anglia or even Kent. Scotland's is more like southern Norway. However even within Scotland the differences are vast. Fort William 140 inches of rain per year, East Lothian 29 inches. The further you get from the Atlantic and the vagaries of the Jetstream the more seasonally predictable the weather is. However in this area the warmest days in January CAN be warmer than the coldest days in July. So you never know just what you are going to get.

 

[stucat]

Doesn't get cold enough here in North Wales till mid January, but then Anglesey used to be known as " the black isle" because when all around was frozen and covered in snow, Anglesey has none. We have our own micro climate.

 

[Finman]

Just a thought but I think he meant, warm enough not to cluster and start flying.

If they do that in winter they starve fast.

How the bees stay alive in countries, where winter is warmer than in Britain?
Native thinking, that is all or not locally adapted bees.

Like me, I live actually 5 km from capital city centre. I cannot keep bees in my home isle, on mile x mile area , or sheep, or cows, or not even dog.
I could fish from sea, but that is boring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bees actually eat less stores when they are warm and cosy ... they do not use as much energy to keep the colony warm so they actually eat less.

That's how mine are over the winter.
Stores left over and bees hardly clustered whenever I looked.

 

[stucat]

Actually strictly by latitude you would thin they were similar. They are not radically different but different enough to be significant.

Weather systems in the N.E. Atlantic tend to travel in a SW to NE direction, driven along by semi permanent high pressure at the Azores and low pressure vaguely situated around Iceland. (It varies about but that is the long term average)

The statistics show that central Jutland, which is on a similar latitude to south central Scotland, actually has a climate more like East Anglia or even Kent. Scotland's is more like southern Norway. However even within Scotland the differences are vast. Fort William 140 inches of rain per year, East Lothian 29 inches. The further you get from the Atlantic and the vagaries of the Jetstream the more seasonally predictable the weather is. However in this area the warmest days in January CAN be warmer than the coldest days in July. So you never know just what you are going to get.

Some of that is back to front.
In its tradional form the jet stream and gulf stream are what gives us predictable weather and stable temps. Again the closer to the Atlantic you are the less variation in temp you get.
You have to go back to El Ninio to see just how much havoc that's still causing. I've done 16 Atlantic crossings and we navigate on water temps to hit the gulf stream and hopefully pick up jet stream on the way back to Europe. The problem is its just not where its supposed to be.
Currently the jet stream is well south of the UK when it should be hitting the middle of Ireland.
Ditto the Azores high, no longer stable it roams over about 500 miles north south.
In 2 weeks time you'll find the jet stream passing North of Scotland. Great for beach weather but what will it mean for forage that late ?
Finman, you can't compare latitudes, when the land masses are so different. We are kept warm in winter by the sea and cool in summer. Every bit of land west of you protects you from rain and cloud cover so in summer your land mass heats up quicker, but once the sun is gone it can't maintain heat like water does.

 

[stucat]

How the bees stay alive in countries, where winter is warmer than in Britain?
Native thinking, that is all or not locally adapted bees.

Like me, I live actually 5 km from capital city centre. I cannot keep bees in my home isle, on mile x mile area , or sheep, or cows, or not even dog.
I could fish from sea, but that is boring.

I know I've said this before, but I just do t understand half of what you've written.
I'm not having a go(this time), it just doesn't read in English.
But I'll try.
In countries where bees fly all year there is forage all year.
If you mean Amm would fair better, your forgetting these bees adapted for a post iceage climate that doesn't exist anymore. No plant or animal species has adapted for the rate of climate change we have now and no bee selected today as"the best " for our climate, will be in 100 years time.
The 2nd paragraph..........
Help ITLD !!!! I need an interpreter !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When we worked the Russian fish factory ships (the old 'klondikers') up towards the North of Scotland) we noticed the ship's bonds always had a ridiculously large stock of compass alcohol, sometimes more than a hundred litres (the chief engineer on one pointed out it was a fraction of the cost of vodka and was potable if mixed with plenty of orange squash or strong tea!) we couldn't get much sense out of them either

 

[Hawklord]

Bees actually eat less stores when they are warm and cosy ... they do not use as much energy to keep the colony warm so they actually eat less.

That's how mine are over the winter.
Stores left over and bees hardly clustered whenever I looked.

That's not how mine are. They are tightly clustered through most of winter chomping through the stores. By the time fresh nectar is coming in in spring the autumn feed is almost gone, that makes sure no thymolated syrup goes up into the supers and the queen has a full box of frames to lay in. There's nothing worse than a brood box jammed with stores when the queen starts laying at a rapid rate.