Very Very Low Store's

[pargyle]

Mesh floor with sealed crownboard has more than adequate ventilation to replace stale air without losing heat that the bees work so hard to produce. Top ventilation really doesn't make any sense and has no benefit for a colony on a mesh floor. All the evidence is there. It is up to you to accept it, or not. New beekeepers really shouldn't be encouraged to have both top and bottom ventilation.

Very important point as we are on the beginners section.

 

[Hawklord]

Mesh floor with sealed crownboard has more than adequate ventilation to replace stale air without losing heat that the bees work so hard to produce. Top ventilation really doesn't make any sense and has no benefit for a colony on a mesh floor. All the evidence is there. It is up to you to accept it, or not. New beekeepers really shouldn't be encouraged to have both top and bottom ventilation.

New beekeepers should not be encouraged to accept things blindly, doing so will create beekeepers who always ask for advice rather than think about it for themselves.

I would have thought crown boards would get more use than clearer, so why sell a hive with a clearer and not a crown?

 

[wessexmario]

There is no gaping hole nor is there a breeze flowing through my hives. Yes there is a hole with a flow of fresh air through the hive. I believe fresh air is more important than stale air.

I believe fresh air is more important than stale air.
Agreed.

Science: Carbon dioxide is 50% more dense than air.
With an OMF, there will be a natural displacement of CO2 out with oxygenated air replacing it from beneath the hive.
There's unlikely to be a problem with stale air with a bottom ventilated hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would have thought crown boards would get more use than clearer, so why sell a hive with a clearer and not a crown?

If that's your argument, why don't they just have one big round hole covered with mesh in the middle if they are primarily for ventilation, instead of those silly little porter escape size holes?

Clutching at straws now - it's simple - they are multi use - feeder board, clearer board and crown board; it's easier to put a piece of slate (or even cardboard) over the clearer/feeder holes and take it off when needed than it is for the beekeeper to cut a hole for a porter escape.

Wedmore's 'science' (he had no tested evidence to back up his theories) was proven flawed before the ink was dry on his comical book on hive ventilation and experienced and knowledgable beeks of the time made this clear, unfortunately a crowd of err.. sheep? decided his scribblings were gospel and carried on his myth to this day

 

[Hawklord]

I've not read Wedmore's work so I'm not likely to be a sheep to it. The proof I have lies with my own colonies.

 

[Millet]

I've not read Wedmore's work so I'm not likely to be a sheep to it. The proof I have lies with my own colonies.

I know this is going of the topic now by folk hijacking it but never mind.. your apiary site looked fine and dandy too me you would not have 4 and 5 super's on if you where doing something wrong.. and you would not have so many hives bursting if you where doing something wrong.. the old saying goes if it is not broke don't try and fix it..

Anyway back to my dilemma.. i'm not able to get to my hive till around Thursday / Friday so i have phoned my lady friend to place some fondant on top of the crown board till i can get there..the bee's are readily taking it so it can only help till the heavy artillery arrives lol .. i have ordered 4kg of Candipolline Gold as advised by a member on here.. i have read about it and it sound's good too me... so finger's crossed the little insect's pull safe and the weather shapes up..

 

[Ely]

New beekeepers should not be encouraged to accept things blindly, doing so will create beekeepers who always ask for advice rather than think about it for themselves.

I would have thought crown boards would get more use than clearer, so why sell a hive with a clearer and not a crown?

New beekeepers do not have to accept things blindly as evidence is there. It is better than the blind leading the blind. Hives are often sold with clearer boards as they can be used for both clearing and as a crown board with heat losing holes blocked up. Personally I don't buy them at all, i make crown boards and I make rhombus clearer boards, two entirely different entities with different purposes. As previous posters have suggested, stick a couple of porter bee escapes in your clearer boards and see what the bees do to them over a few weeks to prevent heat loss.

 

[Ely]

I've not read Wedmore's work so I'm not likely to be a sheep to it. The proof I have lies with my own colonies.

Run 5 of your colonies on both top and bottom ventilation and the other 4 with top insulation and a sealed crown board as an experiment. Monitor them for a few seasons and then study your proof. I think you will be surprised. You cannot have any proof otherwise. Bees simple surviving against all odds is no proof that top and bottom ventilation is a good practise in beekeeping.

 

[Millet]

You mention bottom bee ventilation Ely .. would that ventilation come through the bee entrance as the bottom of my hive has a inspection board that 98% seal's the open mesh floor..

 

[Ely]

You mention bottom bee ventilation Ely .. would that ventilation come through the bee entrance as the bottom of my hive has a inspection board that 98% seal's the open mesh floor..

Yes some ventilation will come through the entrance. When I had open mesh floors I left the clearer board out. It is generally accepted that the board is primarily used for monitoring varroa and not as a way of closing the bottom up, but I suppose it can be used like that in high winds. I prefer to set my bees up in a way that I don't need to pop to the apiary every five minutes to adjust to every type of weather condition though. I use solid floors now with bottom ventilation(A penny between floor and brood box) Nice and easy to make my own floor this way and adequate ventilation. Mesh floors are kind of like cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer. Useful for counting varroa though, if wasting your time is your kind of thing

 

[Millet]

Yes some ventilation will come through the entrance. When I had open mesh floors I left the clearer board out. It is generally accepted that the board is primarily used for monitoring varroa and not as a way of closing the bottom up, but I suppose it can be used like that in high winds. I prefer to set my bees up in a way that I don't need to pop to the apiary every five minutes to adjust to every type of weather condition though. I use solid floors now with bottom ventilation(A penny between floor and brood box) Nice and easy to make my own floor this way and adequate ventilation. Mesh floors are kind of like cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer. Useful for counting varroa though, if wasting your time is your kind of thing

It takes too minutes to slide a tight fitting tray out and back in i don't even have too put the bee suit on too do it.. thank you very much by the way for your input..

 

[Finman]

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I use to look need of ventilation from the number of ventilating bees on entrance. Now main flow is going and bees are busy and hives warm. No problems. Day temps are 20C or under. 10 a'clock in the morning it was only 15C. Working hours of bees are limited. But anyway, honey is flowing now.

 

[Millet]

.
I use to look need of ventilation from the number of ventilating bees on entrance. Now main flow is going and bees are busy and hives warm. No problems. Day temps are 20C or under. 10 a'clock in the morning it was only 15C. Working hours of bees are limited. But anyway, honey is flowing now.

I'm not being pedantic but could you please explain what you mean.. i know you are very clever with bee's and i am not.. but i really struggled to understand what you mean in that post.. thank's..

 

[Finman]

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I have solid floor. There is main entrance and upper entrance holes in box walls.

I set up ventilation only once in month. Not all the time.

Bees move air with their wings, if it is hot or they have much nectar to dry up, You see ventilating bees in entrance or on landing board.
If hive is cold, there is no ventilating bees, entrance needs reduction. With mesh floor and temps under 20C you hardly see them.

If you do not see ventilating bees, at least hive is not too warm. Do something but what?

I can see the hive temp too, how near entrance the queen lays/brood exist, when I inspect the hive. Queen may rise up freely because I have not excluder. But in July it has no meaning. In August it is time to rear winter bee brood and hive must be warm in lower boxes too.

 

[Finman]

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Jep! Beekeepers take care that there is ventilation enough, but when it is too much, only few understand what to do then. Brood rearing, honey crystallization in combs, wasting stores. They work with temperature.

 

[Millet]

Thank you very much for that Finman i am still confused but i now have a more clear view on thing's and what you say does 100% make sense with my common sense..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

At least this lot are getting close to finding a use for porter escapes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Air-Covers-/111728423384?hash=item1a038871d8
- but they still don't quite geddit do they?

When the bees have covered the mesh with propolis, the Air Covers can be removed and cleaned in soda water

 

[pargyle]

At least this lot are getting close to finding a use for porter escapes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Air-Covers-/111728423384?hash=item1a038871d8
- but they still don't quite geddit do they?

What's really worrying is the attitude of some on this thread that, never having tried hives with sealed crown boards and a bit of insulation, give forth with the 'it works for me and my bees' when there are so many advantages for our bees in providing them with an environment which they can regulate with the least effort and the least energy expended.

There are, clearly, novice beekeepers reading some of the carp being put forward that could take their bees into winter with open mesh, floors, gaping holes in the crownboard and ventilators in the roof .... and will then be wondering why their bees are dead in spring ... or struggling to survive, clustered together trying to keep themselves warm.

There has been so much evidence over the last 50 years that bees do better when they have a cosy home to live in... Finman even HEATS his hives in the spring to aid their build up !

Beginners beware ... top and bottom ventilation may not kill your bees, they may survive, but it isn't the sort of home they would choose for themselves.

 

[Hawklord]

The climate in Finland is a whole lot different to what we have in the UK. Some winters it's been too warm and causes the bees to be more active and run out of stores. Also a cooler temp in winter might help to create a brood break needed to treat with oxalic. Dave Cushman suggested that nursing bees with Poly hives might be the wrong thing to do. For those with whole crown boards, do you have any vents in the sides of your rooves?

 

[Finman]

Thank you very much for that Finman i am still confused but i now have a more clear view on thing's and what you say does 100% make sense with my common sense..

Apparently You have not seen ventilating bees.