Ventilation problem?

[Beefriendly]

Wouldn't have thought they'd clean mould off a solid floor but I learn something new everyday.

Depends on bees, some are very tidy minded and have immaculate house keeping standards, some don't. Only way to find out how your bees do, is try it and see.

 

[Millet]

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[Jambo]

Mesh floors should be used in conjunction with top insulation that is how it is meant to be and not a pick and choose though many haven't yet grasped this.

Can anyone explain what is the best way to go about this please? My books don't mention it in any detail.

I'm in my first year, got two hives from Thornes, came with mesh floors but not insulation in the top - I bought their full hive package so presumably Thorne are amongst those who haven't grasped that it is required!?

I have some offcuts of 50mm Celotex so thinking about making some inserts for the roofs.

My main question just now is whether I need to ensure some ventilation remains. Doing so would negate much of the benefit of having the insulation in the first place, but not doing has obvious drawbacks. In a tree in the wild they would manage to ventilate the whole hive through a tiny opening, so maybe the floor and door are more than adequate.

What is the accepted wisdom?

 

[Teemore]

maybe the floor and door are more than adequate.

There is no maybe about it. The mesh and floor provide adequate ventialtion and there are beekeepers who consider that from time to time the door and open mesh floor provide too much ventilation! As noted in an earlier reply, some elect to over-winter on solid floors. Some beekeepers manage their colonies the year round on solid floors.

My personal observation is that my colonies do well on open mesh floors and most of them have roofs with varying thicknesses of salvaged kingspan insulation in them.

 

[Millet]

Can anyone explain what is the best way to go about this please? My books don't mention it in any detail.

I'm in my first year, got two hives from Thornes, came with mesh floors but not insulation in the top - I bought their full hive package so presumably Thorne are amongst those who haven't grasped that it is required!?

I have some offcuts of 50mm Celotex so thinking about making some inserts for the roofs.

My main question just now is whether I need to ensure some ventilation remains. Doing so would negate much of the benefit of having the insulation in the first place, but not doing has obvious drawbacks. In a tree in the wild they would manage to ventilate the whole hive through a tiny opening, so maybe the floor and door are more than adequate.

What is the accepted wisdom?

The holes in my crown boards are blocked of so they have no top ventilation and they do not need it, the most recent crown boards i have made have no holes in them, as for insulation all my roofs have some insulation of one kind or another however the standard national roof is only 4 in deep, so if you are using thick celotex/kingspan in the roof they will need modifying or you need to buy deep roofs.

 

[Jambo]

Thanks for the replies.

Regarding roof depth, maybe the solution is brood box x2 > crown board > super with insulation inside (frames removed) > roof ?

But storing my super frames will then be a PITA.

Maybe I'll pick up an eke or two in the Thorne sale.

I tell you there is a huge business opportunity in modernising beekeeping for the plug and play twitter generation.

 

[Millet]

That would be just as effective imo however do not let the bees get to any exposed insulation ie the cut edges as they chew holes into it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have some offcuts of 50mm Celotex so thinking about making some inserts for the roofs.

My main question just now is whether I need to ensure some ventilation remains.

50mm Celotex in the roof is adequate.
As for ventilation the bees do it.
Next time there is a flow on have look at what the bees are doing in the evening.
They are on the floor fanning air around the hive. More are actually on the frames.
I've posted this before. They actually do a good job with a solid floor.
If you put in the inspection tray and hold a downy feather (something that will float about in a drought) at each side of the entrance you will see the air being drawn in one side and out the other (it's been round the hive)

The bees are very good at it

If you add "ventilation" at the top it messes this process no end and creates a chimney effect.

I tell you there is a huge business opportunity in modernising beekeeping for the plug and play twitter generation.

It will never work. As there is no perfect Rucksack there is no perfect hive.
I have lost count of the number of modifications I have made and will continue to do

 

[colinc]

50mm Celotex in the roof is adequate.
As for ventilation the bees do it.
Next time there is a flow on have look at what the bees are doing in the evening.
They are on the floor fanning air around the hive. More are actually on the frames.
I've posted this before. They actually do a good job with a solid floor.
If you put in the inspection tray and hold a downy feather (something that will float about in a drought) at each side of the entrance you will see the air being drawn in one side and out the other (it's been round the hive)

The bees are very good at it

If you add "ventilation" at the top it messes this process no end and creates a chimney effect.



It will never work. As there is no perfect Rucksack there is no perfect hive.
I have lost count of the number of modifications I have made and will continue to do

Flow hives seem to be doing a good job of tapping that market but it doesn't fix the husbandry issues. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for the replies.


I tell you there is a huge business opportunity in modernising beekeeping for the plug and play twitter generation.

Take a look at Poly hives

 

[Jambo]

That would be just as effective imo however do not let the bees get to any exposed insulation ie the cut edges as they chew holes into it.

Yes I can imagine the little cherubs having fun with that, hence planned to put the crown board beneath it.

Next time there is a flow on have look at what the bees are doing in the evening.
They are on the floor fanning air around the hive.
...
If you put in the inspection tray and hold a downy feather (something that will float about in a drought) at each side of the entrance you will see the air being drawn in one side and out the other (it's been round the hive)
...
If you add "ventilation" at the top it messes this process no end and creates a chimney effect.

OK - thanks - I knew the bees ventilated the hive a lot in summer to drive off moisture and/or cool the hive, but I previously thought they used a "chimney" convection effect to their advantage, but obviously this is a problem in winter when trying to conserve heat. Perhaps the source of my confusion is that my hive appears to have been constructed with top ventilation in mind - see vents in roofs for example. I've taken bee escapes out of the crown board so that the little darlings don't gum them up with propolis but I just replaced with mesh as that is what I have seen on hives elsewhere. I assumed top vents were required. That said the bees are slowly gumming the mesh up, and I assume they know what they are doing

So - to conclude - ventilation through the crown board is never required, at any time of year. In fact it is actively discouraged.

It will never work. As there is no perfect Rucksack there is no perfect hive.
I have lost count of the number of modifications I have made and will continue to do

I think that proves my point if anything

Take a look at Poly hives

Touché. I did think that as I was writing - part of the problem is my own resistance to change and to move on to something that is clearly better in every measurable way. Appearance is a consideration though!

 

[user 6228]

There is an article in august edition of the American Bee journal that describes the latest engineering research about the interaction between insulation and ventilation put into terms for the beekeeper. It also describes how the some very limited 1940s research has been misinterpreted into a justification for ventilation. The author? Modesty forbids

 

[Millet]

There is an article in august edition of the American Bee journal that describes the latest engineering research about the interaction between insulation and ventilation put into terms for the beekeeper. It also describes how the some very limited 1940s research has been misinterpreted into a justification for ventilation. The author? Modesty forbids

Fascinating..