Varrox vaporization

[slaykristian]

Hello guys,
I would like to ask you why is necessary keep Varrox vaporizer inside the hive for 2 minutes over the battery disconnection.
Do you think that this step is necessary to give heat to colony and increase the bees movement during treatment or you think is necessary for make a complete vaporization of oxalic?
Producer says:

...After disconnecting
the VARROX®-Vaporiser, wait for 2 minutes before the appliance is pulled out, so that the oxalic acid-vapour can settle down. Once removed, ensure that the entrance of the hive is shut tightly again and left shut for another 10 minutes.
...

I'm modifying varrox... I added a thermo regulator sensor that keep temperature under 190°C treshold... This for to preserve time, and treat hives in less of 4,5 minutes (ext.time 1,5 min.) because cooling is no more necessary.
But I need to know if is mandatory keep the hot dish of varrox inside the hive after the complete vaporization.
Thanks in advance!

Bye from Italy!

 

[Plenty of honey]

You can remove the Varrox just after sublimation, but the whole idea is that you leave it sealed for as long as possible to hopefully ensure the cloud of sublimate covers every bee, every surface.
As soon as you remove the Varrox that cloud starts to disperse and the efficiency could be less than the maximum you could attain from their machine.
If you can slide out the Varrox and carefully remove the machine then fine, i have done it in the fast by using foam in the entranceway.
Still a lot better to leave the whole thing closed until you can be sure the correct time has passed and the treatment is as effective as you can have possibly delivered.its a good tool, use it to the spec to get the max out of it!

 

[slaykristian]

Thanks!
So, you think that the important thing is closing the entrance in order to reduce the dispersion of the fog, out of the hive. I aggree. I always used the covering on the entrance for 10 or more minutes.

I also think that is a good tool, but too expensive in terms of time.
My question borns by the fact that other sublimators, like i.e. "Sublimox", creates a big cloud of fog in a very short period 25-40secs... So, in this case they consider finished the treatment in less than 1 min/hive. Without the necessity to keep inside any kind of heat source. Why with varrox is necessary keep it inside again? That's the mistery!

 

[Plenty of honey]

Thanks!
So, you think that the important thing is closing the entrance in order to reduce the dispersion of the fog, out of the hive. I aggree. I always used the covering on the entrance for 10 or more minutes.

I also think that is a good tool, but too expensive in terms of time.
My question borns by the fact that other sublimators, like i.e. "Sublimox", creates a big cloud of fog in a very short period 25-40secs... So, in this case they consider finished the treatment in less than 1 min/hive. Without the necessity to keep inside any kind of heat source. Why with varrox is necessary keep it inside again? That's the mistery!

Like I just said, it gives instructions to cover misinterpretations, so people don’t take out the Varrox too soon and the cloud disperses!
I have a sublimox (after using a Varrox for 3 seasons) and I still have to close up the hive as best I can to
Keep vapours inside for as long as possible before they disperse!
Sublimox and Varrox still do the same thing, they produce a cloud of sublimate, the Varrox takes longer to achieve this, Sublimox a little quicker (about 15 to 20 seconds) but that’s still no excuse to unblock the hive any sooner!! (thanks Steve Browning from Arden Forest Honey, for this information you gave me)!!
Its lot better to Leave it closed for a good two minutes afterwards to maximise that sublimate!!
It might be precious in time, but your time it wasted if you don’t leave the sublimate in the hive as long as you can!
There is no short cuts, the machine works perfectly without thermo regulators!
Like all these things, they have had exhaustive research, ( see Sussex university report/ paper)


http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/33537



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[Uncle Betty]

Deleted.

 

[slaykristian]

Thanks Richard.
I will try anyway with thermoregulation. In any cases, I'm sure that the oxalic sublimates without degradation. The 2 bad point that burn time are the refresh of plate and the long insertion after disconnection. In other pubblications (Nanetti et al. - 2015 - stranova), they draw the temperature curves for varrox with and without Apibioxal.
They underline the importance to respect a gradual growth of temperature in varrox. After 2,5min, after disconnection, when varrox is still inserted again in the hive, without electricity, the temperature arrives over 300 degrees. This is no necessary for the oxalic sublimation, it needs only 190°C. When you put oxalic on varrox, temperature drops istantanely about 60°C... Without pass varrox on cold water.
Cooling step and after-sublimation period took a lot of time.
I'm alone and with a lot of hives, needs a diffetent solution! ;-)

 

[Plenty of honey]

Thanks Richard.
I will try anyway with thermoregulation. In any cases, I'm sure that the oxalic sublimates without degradation. The 2 bad point that burn time are the refresh of plate and the long insertion after disconnection. In other pubblications (Nanetti et al. - 2015 - stranova), they draw the temperature curves for varrox with and without Apibioxal.
They underline the importance to respect a gradual growth of temperature in varrox. After 2,5min, after disconnection, when varrox is still inserted again in the hive, without electricity, the temperature arrives over 300 degrees. This is no necessary for the oxalic sublimation, it needs only 190°C. When you put oxalic on varrox, temperature drops istantanely about 60°C... Without pass varrox on cold water.
Cooling step and after-sublimation period took a lot of time.
I'm alone and with a lot of hives, needs a diffetent solution! ;-)

In that case you may want to consider a Sublimox or an alternative treatment. Vaping does take time! cooling a Varrox sublimator pan, wastes a lot of heat. battery energy and time when you have a lot of hives to do. You probably need to reflect on your treatment methods if thats the issue!
Good luck anyhow.

 

[For want of a better word]

Thanks Richard.
I will try anyway with thermoregulation. In any cases, I'm sure that the oxalic sublimates without degradation. The 2 bad point that burn time are the refresh of plate and the long insertion after disconnection. In other pubblications (Nanetti et al. - 2015 - stranova), they draw the temperature curves for varrox with and without Apibioxal.
They underline the importance to respect a gradual growth of temperature in varrox. After 2,5min, after disconnection, when varrox is still inserted again in the hive, without electricity, the temperature arrives over 300 degrees. This is no necessary for the oxalic sublimation, it needs only 190°C. When you put oxalic on varrox, temperature drops istantanely about 60°C... Without pass varrox on cold water.
Cooling step and after-sublimation period took a lot of time.
I'm alone and with a lot of hives, needs a diffetent solution! ;-)

Sublimox?

Downside is you will also need a 12v to 220Volt converter... and cost / 400 euro ( £380?)

Also Varomor vaporiser... quick... but needs 3 visits

Yeghes da

 

[Plenty of honey]

Yes!! I have those!! Inverter from screw fix direct, car battery with inverter still vapes over 40 hives perfectly with sublimox and inverter!! Don’t forget from a car battery with Sublimox your not loosing thexstart up heat each time, only topping up the heat as required! With car battery and Varrox your essentially heating from cold!!


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[Finman]

Sublimox?

Downside is you will also need a 12v to 220Volt converter... and cost / 400 euro ( £380?)

Also Varomor vaporiser... quick... but needs 3 visits

Yeghes da

All our hives are now broodless. Trickling is best in this situation. Trickling is best, where it is best.

 

[SDM]

Why is trickling best when it has a lower kill rate and causes more disturbance?

 

[Finman]

Why is trickling best when it has a lower kill rate and causes more disturbance?

From where you got that? What is your trickling kill rate?

Disturbance is good. The cluster opens and bees rub oxalic syrup around their body. It is necessary that trickling disturbs them. Kill tests rate is 96% but in practice more or less.

My bees are calm and they do not mind much when I open the cover. I do not know what happens with Black Mongrels?

 

[Eyeman]

Hello guys,
I would like to ask you why is necessary keep Varrox vaporizer inside the hive for 2 minutes over the battery disconnection.
Do you think that this step is necessary to give heat to colony and increase the bees movement during treatment or you think is necessary for make a complete vaporization of oxalic?
Producer says:


I'm modifying varrox... I added a thermo regulator sensor that keep temperature under 190°C treshold... This for to preserve time, and treat hives in less of 4,5 minutes (ext.time 1,5 min.) because cooling is no more necessary.
But I need to know if is mandatory keep the hot dish of varrox inside the hive after the complete vaporization.
Thanks in advance!

Bye from Italy!

The sublimox has a pan temp of 300' C so I wouldn't worry about a thermo regulator for the varrox.
When I used to use the varrox I had x2 devices. These were run in parallel so I was treating x2 hives at the same time. This reduced the treatment time by 50%.

 

[fatshark]

Sublimox?

Downside is you will also need a 12v to 220Volt converter... and cost / 400 euro ( £380?)

Also Varomor vaporiser... quick... but needs 3 visits

Yeghes da

A generator to run the Sublimox is much cheaper than that.

I've got a Sublimox but am happy to acknowledge that - all things considered - trickling is faster.

 

[SDM]

From where you got that? What is your trickling kill rate?

Disturbance is good. The cluster opens and bees rub oxalic syrup around their body. It is necessary that trickling disturbs them. Kill tests rate is 96% but in practice more or less.

My bees are calm and they do not mind much when I open the cover. I do not know what happens with Black Mongrels?

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00218839.2015.1106777?src=recsys

 

[slaykristian]

Tnx SDM!
Out of any kind of study, in my direct experience, I can only confirm the conclusions... With sublimation colonies loses less bees...

My idea is to create a varrox thermoregulation that gives a sublimator like this: youtu.be/7q14qXNr3M0
Preserves time, oxalic effects and batteries.

 

[slaykristian]

@Plenty of honey

I have an answer by the Varrox producer! (Andermatt-BIO AG).
It says that keep the varrox in the hive for 2 min over the connection, is necessary to complete the sublimation of the last little quantitative of oxalic and as we said, for avoid the fog leak.

Thanks for answers guys.
But, I'm curious and I'll try with thermoregulations, in order to don't refresh the dish and save battery and a lot of time. I'll inform you about!

Thanks again.

 

[Finman]

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00218839.2015.1106777?src=recsys

When Mr Ratsniek did trickling research, his method was wrong. He counted the result 2 weeks after treatment. Fall down of mites is then half way. [I]"We stopped counting fallen mites after 10 days, as by then the number had been at low levels, less than three mites per day, for 4 days (see Results)."[/I]

Ratsniek should know, that part of mites die and fall into empty cells. When spring comes, hive will become warm, bees start to clean cells and drop down those dead mites.


There are certain methods, how trickling should done. There are no where, that give 2.2 g per hive or half dose 1.1 g per Hivemaker. Trickling dose should be according size of hive.

Half dose? Is it idea to save oxalic acid or what?

Trickling has worked fine in northern Europe.

Very few use fumigation, even if it is 40 years old method. But do as you like. Trickling works fine.

All wintered bees will die during spring. Earlier researches have reported that spring build up is as good as in control hives.

 

[Finman]

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00218839.2015.1106777?src=recsys

Tupla
.

 

[SDM]

Tupla
.

Is a chocolate bar, yes ?