Varrox Vaporiser now fashionable ?

[einsteinagogo]

Merry Christmas folk...

Is the Varrox Vaporiser now fashionable for treating of OA, during winter?

This year I've noticed more and more forum users, turning to a Varrox Vaporiser over winter for OA treatment.

Is this due to the "new National Bee Unit" statement (or whatever the department has been renamed to!", which I've looked for but cannot find. I've always trickled OA over winter (1 winter last year, and many swarms in 2013/2014).

So are people turning towards using Varrox Vaporiser rather than trickling, this was something I considered last year, but then finally did Trickle2.

The cost for me is not the issue, it's negligible, (after the initial spend on kit!) to me it looks less "invasive" e.g. crack crown board apply OA.

But varrox, does appear to be "more man hours time consuming per hive" e.g. 2.5 mins, wait 10 mins, remove in water, on to next hive etc

it does not take me that long to treat a hive with trickling OA.

I know this has been discussed alot on here before...

I'm interested in the views of converts from Trickle OA to Varrox Vaporiser?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have been thinking about it for some time.
Hivemaker posted that a very good way of using Oxalic is to vaporize four times at 5/6 day intervals giving you a practically 100 kill rate.
The ability to use Vape as my main autumn treatment did it.
I'm working on vaporising under the OMF so that all I have to do it quickly bung up the entrance in the evening or early morning.....haven't decided which yet and will take advice on that if any is forthcoming.
I can get the car easily down to the hives and was surprised how easy it was to do and how gentle on the bees it seemed.

 

[einsteinagogo]

I have been thinking about it for some time.
Hivemaker posted that a very good way of using Oxalic is to vaporize four times at 5/6 day intervals giving you a practically 100 kill rate.
The ability to use Vape as my main autumn treatment did it.
I'm working on vaporising under the OMF so that all I have to do it quickly bung up the entrance in the evening or early morning.....haven't decided which yet and will take advice on that if any is forthcoming.
I can get the car easily down to the hives and was surprised how easy it was to do and how gentle on the bees it seemed.

The vendors certainly have been selling many this year!

Thanks for reply.

I can get my car to the apiary,but my battery in the car is problematic most days, but we have many batteries for electric fences! (not that they are used around the hives - yet!) - not an issue, I've got a bee/hive barrow, and apiary is 3 mins from house!

vaporising under the OMF, is this effective as vaping on top of the OMF, I can get may lads, to quickly knock up a inspection board out or some metal?

would this corrode the OMF ? This seems a better method, than removing mouse guard, sticking in the entrance , and disturbing the bees, which will come rushing out, and then plug up!

What protection equipment do you personally use, do you have full face mask and breather ?

 

[mbc]

how gentle on the bees.

My theory on why vaporizing is gaining favour in preference to trickling is that as our bees and varroa are moving towards coping with each other, we as beekeepers are becoming less tolerant towards the damage done to our charges by trickling.

 

[einsteinagogo]

My theory on why vaporizing is gaining favour in preference to trickling is that as our bees and varroa are moving towards coping with each other, we as beekeepers are becoming less tolerant towards the damage done to our charges by trickling.

@mbc, do you vape your bees ?

 

[mbc]

@mbc, do you vape your bees ?

I have done some in the past, and may feel the need to do some in the future. I'd rather have "vapeing" in the armoury than have to go back to trickling, which can be the kiss of death to teetering colonies.

 

[oliver90owner]

Low mite level in the autumn, ready for the winter bee round of brooding is the most important time for treatment; taking uninfected (by varroa-transmitted viruses) bees into winter is the simple way to get colonies through the winter (all other factors being equal).

Therefore winter treatment should not be necessary. I repeat, should not be necessary. I have not used oxalic acid in winter for the best part of the last ten years. Absolutely no need as healthy bees in strong colonies, with adequate stores will survive in good accommodation.

Winter losses of less than 5%, over this period, is more than enough to be clear proof for me. That is with between 15 and 20+ colonies for the last eight (I think) years. None of those losses attributable to varroa, either.

No, treat properly in the autumn and leave the bees in peace until late February is the way to go and the sooner beeks realise that, the better for all.

 

[Cazza]

It seems to me that Oxalic tts are popular on this forum but most real life beeks I know in the flesh rarely use it. I am with Rab on this.
Cazza

 

[beeno]

Hi Andy,
I am glad you asked that question. The reason the shops have been selling so many vaporisers this year is that many beeks (myself included) have found it difficult to get varroa down to acceptable levels despite treatment with Maqs and Thymol. People have put it down to 'not the right type of weather' (personally I thought the weather was splendid and within the parameters stated on the packaging in my locale), too early treatment so the colonies got reinfected before wintering, robbing and no August brood break (in my case, but the Maqs are supposed to kill in the brood). Last season the forum was awash with beeks having very low levels of varroa, so perhaps they did not bother to treat so we have a natural build up, or varroa is cyclical in nature like most other things. For the first time this season, I have actually had one hive with no 24-hr mite drop. I shall be watching them closely, and may very well have to treat before spring build up for the first time. Hey ho, not two seasons have been the same so far. Well, it certainly makes beekeeping very interesting.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well of the seven boxes I treated earlier this month five obviously didn't need it. These had an autumn thymol treatment.The remaining two were treated with MAQS in July. These dropped 100 and 300 in the first day post Vape.
So I agree with RAB. Use an effective autumn treatment and you don't need to disturb the bees in the middle of winter.

I vapourised on a still day. I used the mask that Maisie's included with the varrox (just one covering the mouth and nose) and nitrile gloves.
The boxes proved quite tight and there was barely a whisper of vapour.

I'll add ).5g Oxalic if vaporising under the OMF

 

[Amari]

Merry Christmas folk...
Is the Varrox Vaporiser now fashionable for treating of OA, during winter?
This year I've noticed more and more forum users, turning to a Varrox Vaporiser over winter for OA treatment.
Is this due to the "new National Bee Unit" statement (or whatever the department has been renamed to!", which I've looked for but cannot find. I've always trickled OA over winter (1 winter last year, and many swarms in 2013/2014).
So are people turning towards using Varrox Vaporiser rather than trickling, this was something I considered last year, but then finally did Trickle2.
The cost for me is not the issue, it's negligible, (after the initial spend on kit!) to me it looks less "invasive" e.g. crack crown board apply OA.
But varrox, does appear to be "more man hours time consuming per hive" e.g. 2.5 mins, wait 10 mins, remove in water, on to next hive etc
it does not take me that long to treat a hive with trickling OA.
I know this has been discussed alot on here before...
I'm interested in the views of converts from Trickle OA to Varrox Vaporiser?

I'm a convert. It doesn't take 10 mins per hive because you remove the Varrox after 5 mins, close up that hive for another 5 mins while you have moved on to the next hive.
My problem is that I have accumulated different hive floors over the years. It is easy to insert the Varrox into those with removable entrance blocks but on other floors (?source, can't remember) the entrances are too slim (no mouse guard needed) so I have to insert under the OMF - OK but more fiddly. I believe Prof Ratneiks found that under OMF Varrox reduces efficacy by only 5%.
What is very reassuring is that over the next week there is no appreciable drop of dead bees onto the OMF.
Here are some pre- and post-treatment Varroa drop counts (each count over 3 days):
Hive 2: 6/1000
H3: 14/1000
H4: 6/200
H5: 2/300
H6: 8/50
H7: 0/10 (this hive has dropped copious dead bees over Nov/Dec ?dying colony)
H8: 1/80 (.....................ditto...........)
H9: 10/80
H10: 10/150
I plan to repeat Varrox on the hives with high drops. One lesson seems to be that pre-treatment varroa count is poorly related to post-Rx. The drop count must also depend on the number of bees in the colony - but no way of telling in mid-winter.

 

[Arfermo]

Despite Rab's advice, albeit good stuff, I prefer to be certain that varroa levels are as low as is possible and if that means winter oxalic before spring, that is the way I go - and many senior members of my BKAs also do so, a few of whom are Masters of the hobby. I have only ever trickled oxalic solution once and as I don't have more that 6/7 hives at any one time I consider the Varrox suits my bees needs best. There are other kits that would suit the commercial beekeepers better - a pumping type action through the entrance hole for one. There are others that descend into a botchup plumbing DIY thingy I wouldn't entertain at any price (link available). A cheaper variation on the Varrox is the Heilyser 202 model - not easily imported unless you know a wriggle-round. Basically the same and just as effective.
I was sold my almost new Varrox by a fellow beek in my BKA. Because he was virtually commercial he found the Varrox too slow for vast multiple hives - so I got it for less than half price with a m/cycle 12 battery thrown in. Since got a sheet of 2mm steel cut to fit the slots where the varroa tray goes and I insert the Varrox onto that with foam strips around it to seal the whole rear aperture and block up the front entrance entirely. That avoids frying (sublimating?) any bees as when the Varrox is stuffed in the front entrance as happened initially. Expensive piece of kit these days for infrequent use. My view - your choice.

 

[mbc]

Varrox too slow for vast multiple hives - .

I'm more and more convinced active air systems are the way forwards for ease of use.
LJ's thread on his home made active air vaporizer is intriguing.

 

[midnight sun]

The vendors certainly have been selling many this year!

Thanks for reply.

I can get my car to the apiary,but my battery in the car is problematic most days, but we have many batteries for electric fences! (not that they are used around the hives - yet!) - not an issue, I've got a bee/hive barrow, and apiary is 3 mins from house!

vaporising under the OMF, is this effective as vaping on top of the OMF, I can get may lads, to quickly knock up a inspection board out or some metal?

would this corrode the OMF ? This seems a better method, than removing mouse guard, sticking in the entrance , and disturbing the bees, which will come rushing out, and then plug up!

What protection equipment do you personally use, do you have full face mask and breather ?

The answer is yes, if it's standard mesh that came with the floor, as it's Zinc coated mesh and the acid will attack this coating and therefore the mesh will eventually rust.
Just replace the mesh with stainless available from "The Mesh Company". They supply stainless mesh specifically for that very purpose.

 

[Jimmys Mum]

The main reasons I took the plunge this year:
1. Despite the reassurance of others that it does minimal harm, it still goes against the grain for me to crack open that precious propolis seal in winter. If there is a less invasive way to treat varroa in winter then that's me sold!
2. The fact that it is supposedly acceptable to apply multiple doses so that the treatments will ultimately deal with most of the varroa, even those that were safely hidden away in brood cells during the first and perhaps second doses. For my bees who, so far, seem to have little in the way of a winter brood break, this is the main draw for me. I intend to vaporise 3 times, 5 days apart and give the bees a good clean start to the season. Despite following instructions to the letter, sometimes an autumn treatment of thymol or Apivar, has just not been effective enough on some of the colonies.
3. I have enough hives to justify the cost of the equipment but not too many to make it prohibitively time consuming.

For the first round of treatment I treated half my hives under the OMF and half through the entrance. OMF sealed up tightly in both cases. On looking up under the OMF after treatment, the ones where the varrox went under the OMF had a significant circle of crystallised acid crystals still clinging to the mesh. I would guess half a gram or so.
The hives where I vaporised through the entrances seemed fine, no scorched frames or melted wax or 'fried bees' but to be fair, they weren't flying on the day I treated!

I still used trickle on my single WBC hive as that seemed to be a bit more of a faff to vaporise. Not sure I could get a good seal on the OMF and I would have to use the entrance which is a bit more tricky to get to and seal up. All things considered, I thought trickle was probably less invasive than having to remove all the lifts and get creative with duck tape

 

[alanf]

...Is the Varrox Vaporiser now fashionable for treating of OA, during winter?...

Early in the year Agrinova sold quite a few when the first reports emerged from LASI at the University of Sussex. That's what I was told at a spring show. At the time, the only uk suppliers I was aware of were Agrinova and Thrones. Paynes and Maisemore now stock them, probably others.

Another factor is that vaporising is now part of an "authorised" treatment. Albeit indirectly using the Apibioxal version of oxalic, where the instructions clearly refer to a Varrox style device without naming it.

Using it this December has shown several hives with 500-1000 mites dropped. These are hives with minimal drops in September (1 or 2 a week). Hives which were showing mites in September were treated with Apiguard and are still dropping 500 on treatment now. It just seems to have been ideal mite breeding conditions around here in September, October and November. You could trickle, but there has been no sign of a broodless period in most hives and trickling more than once is not recommended. I've been vaporising at 5-6 day intervals until the drop shows they are clear, three or four seems to do it.

Yes, it is more time consuming than chemical strips might be, but 2.5 minutes heating, couple of minutes to cool then remove, Varrox into the water bucket and refill with Oxalic. Leave the previous hive sealed for a few minutes to settle while you're on the next. All you need is several foam strips. Maybe 6 minutes a hive needs the Varrox present, ten hives take less than an hour in total. To work faster you could use multiple devices or a blown vapour device like a Sublimox. We'll see what results in early spring.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I completely take RAB's point, and have only vaped hives that for one reason or another did not have autumn treatment. The way forward for me in 2015 is multiple spaced vapings in the pre-ivy dearth and then leave them until February. I think this is what Hivemaker. does.

 

[Amari]

I completely take RAB's point, and have only vaped hives that for one reason or another did not have autumn treatment. The way forward for me in 2015 is multiple spaced vapings in the pre-ivy dearth and then leave them until February. I think this is what Hivemaker. does.

D'you mean post-ivy? Surely brood is present 'pre-'?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

D'you mean post-ivy? Surely brood is present 'pre-'?

The point of multiple spaced vapings is to cover a full sealed brood cycle. No need to be brood-free, although HM says he is more likely to be brood-free then than now and that seems to be my experience too. Brood-free is a bonus. But the joy of vaping is the bees tolerate it so well you can refresh over the full sealed brood cycle.

 

[Erichalfbee]

then leave them until February.

Do you mean another three Tx of oxalic then?