Varrox Vaporiser now fashionable ?

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Do you mean another three Tx of oxalic then?

No; echoing RAB above. Really mean "leave them till spring inspection". I aim to be less interventionist next year...

 

[einsteinagogo]

Low mite level in the autumn, ready for the winter bee round of brooding is the most important time for treatment; taking uninfected (by varroa-transmitted viruses) bees into winter is the simple way to get colonies through the winter (all other factors being equal).

Therefore winter treatment should not be necessary. I repeat, should not be necessary. I have not used oxalic acid in winter for the best part of the last ten years. Absolutely no need as healthy bees in strong colonies, with adequate stores will survive in good accommodation.

Winter losses of less than 5%, over this period, is more than enough to be clear proof for me. That is with between 15 and 20+ colonies for the last eight (I think) years. None of those losses attributable to varroa, either.

No, treat properly in the autumn and leave the bees in peace until late February is the way to go and the sooner beeks realise that, the better for all.

@oliver90owner

All my colonies were treated with MAQS in early September as per instructions.

2 out of 6 of my colonies, have a high might count, which according to the Beebase Calculator, states treat as soon as possible!

I only monitored for a short period, so I've put the inspection boards back in, to leave them in for a longer period to get a better daily average.

Are you suggesting, "treat as soon as possible is February ?" and with what?

 

[einsteinagogo]

Hi Andy,
I am glad you asked that question. The reason the shops have been selling so many vaporisers this year is that many beeks (myself included) have found it difficult to get varroa down to acceptable levels despite treatment with Maqs and Thymol. People have put it down to 'not the right type of weather' (personally I thought the weather was splendid and within the parameters stated on the packaging in my locale), too early treatment so the colonies got reinfected before wintering, robbing and no August brood break (in my case, but the Maqs are supposed to kill in the brood). Last season the forum was awash with beeks having very low levels of varroa, so perhaps they did not bother to treat so we have a natural build up, or varroa is cyclical in nature like most other things. For the first time this season, I have actually had one hive with no 24-hr mite drop. I shall be watching them closely, and may very well have to treat before spring build up for the first time. Hey ho, not two seasons have been the same so far. Well, it certainly makes beekeeping very interesting.

Hi Beeno

Last year I treated with MAQS, what I considered to be too late, I was not sure it was effective, because in Dec/Jan, I had a very high might count, and treated with OA (Trickle2).

This year, "learning!" I treated with MAQS earlier, end of August, before the Bank Holiday, 6 colonies with MAQS as per instructions, but I'm finding 2 of 6 colonies have a high might count, so I've dropped the inspection boards back in over a longer period to count and check.... and then decide OA trickle or Varrox!!!

Andy

PS I do like posting questions, that pose a debate!!!

 

[einsteinagogo]

I'm a convert. It doesn't take 10 mins per hive because you remove the Varrox after 5 mins, close up that hive for another 5 mins while you have moved on to the next hive.
My problem is that I have accumulated different hive floors over the years. It is easy to insert the Varrox into those with removable entrance blocks but on other floors (?source, can't remember) the entrances are too slim (no mouse guard needed) so I have to insert under the OMF - OK but more fiddly. I believe Prof Ratneiks found that under OMF Varrox reduces efficacy by only 5%.
What is very reassuring is that over the next week there is no appreciable drop of dead bees onto the OMF.
Here are some pre- and post-treatment Varroa drop counts (each count over 3 days):
Hive 2: 6/1000
H3: 14/1000
H4: 6/200
H5: 2/300
H6: 8/50
H7: 0/10 (this hive has dropped copious dead bees over Nov/Dec ?dying colony)
H8: 1/80 (.....................ditto...........)
H9: 10/80
H10: 10/150
I plan to repeat Varrox on the hives with high drops. One lesson seems to be that pre-treatment varroa count is poorly related to post-Rx. The drop count must also depend on the number of bees in the colony - but no way of telling in mid-winter.

Thanks for the clarification on the time, good point about the floors, because I've noticed this year, some of my floors are different, because they do not accept the same inspection boards!!! and the entrance block size!

 

[einsteinagogo]

Despite Rab's advice, albeit good stuff, I prefer to be certain that varroa levels are as low as is possible and if that means winter oxalic before spring, that is the way I go - and many senior members of my BKAs also do so, a few of whom are Masters of the hobby. I have only ever trickled oxalic solution once and as I don't have more that 6/7 hives at any one time I consider the Varrox suits my bees needs best. There are other kits that would suit the commercial beekeepers better - a pumping type action through the entrance hole for one. There are others that descend into a botchup plumbing DIY thingy I wouldn't entertain at any price (link available). A cheaper variation on the Varrox is the Heilyser 202 model - not easily imported unless you know a wriggle-round. Basically the same and just as effective.
I was sold my almost new Varrox by a fellow beek in my BKA. Because he was virtually commercial he found the Varrox too slow for vast multiple hives - so I got it for less than half price with a m/cycle 12 battery thrown in. Since got a sheet of 2mm steel cut to fit the slots where the varroa tray goes and I insert the Varrox onto that with foam strips around it to seal the whole rear aperture and block up the front entrance entirely. That avoids frying (sublimating?) any bees as when the Varrox is stuffed in the front entrance as happened initially. Expensive piece of kit these days for infrequent use. My view - your choice.

Thanks.....2mm steel I can get cut to size!

Don't have an issue with cost!

 

[oliver90owner]

Are you suggesting, "treat as soon as possible is February ?" and with what?

Clearly you did not read my post very carefully, or did not understand what was written.

Read the second and third paragraphs again, until you understand what I have written.

How many have consistently had less than an average 5% losses for several years in succession? I know Hivemaker is in that ballpark - and he does not treat for varroa in the winter months. That should tell you something.

shutting the stabld door before the horse bolts is the much simpler and better solution than leaving the door open and having to chase after the horse to recover it. Only the slow learners, after catching and re-stabling the horse, would then leave the door open yet again! I'm afraid if would appear that your horse bolted, in the case of two of your six hives. The mite levels were insufficiently reduced by your earlier treatments anx you are now left with a problem.

I said get it right in the first place and losses will be low. How do you think my bees have survived with such few losses? I have treated in the autumn, fed them full and left them tucked up for the worst of the winter months with no, or minimum, interference from me. It is not rocket science to work out why my losses are seemingly so much less than those of many others. Most certainly not down to trickling oxalic acid over them in the depths of winter, as I have not trickled oxalic in winter - getting on for ten years.

Some out there must be working very hard to lose as many colonies as they do. If oxalic trickling was so important - as it has been trumped up to be - why have my winter losses been so low? They should have been higher than the average, not lower.

Regarding the end of February reference, that was a typical time that I started to encourage some colonies to increase brooding and to heft for stores. I have, in the past, pulled a hive (in my garden) to pieces in mid Feb, looking for brood. A whole week with temps up around, and over, 20 Celsius. Winter only lasted about 7 weeks that year, as I clearly recall. Bees foraging heavily into late November, still brooding heavily into December (even taking in pollen on Christmas Eve) and only then settling down until the second week in Feb when they were foraging voraciously.

At the time, I thought it amazing bee-haviour, but now it is nothing special as the seasons are much less defined than in previous decades.

Your varroa will not increase until brooding recommences. Think about it - if there are 500 mites they will all be into cells during the first few days of increased brooding. They will be stuck there for a fortnight. If you have a problem, treating before they emerge and they double in number would be good.

If brooding starts and slows, due to the weather or too few bees, troubles can/will escalate; if when brooding starts it continues apace there will be more bees produced without varroa in the pupating cells, so the colony will expand faster than the varroa population. Those winter bees surviving into spring are most important, so that the first brood cycle is supported by them. Err, back to healthy bees going into
winter? Back to getting the varroa load down in the autumn. It is up to the beekeeper to take strong healthy colonies into winter, or watch out for the ailing colonies in spring and treat appropriately. I know which is the better option.

 

[peteinwilts]

I am still a trickler... and my losses are also low.

In the bloodbath of 2012-2013, my losses equated to 12%. The national average was 33%.
I have over 50 hives, and out of the few years I have been beekeeping, only lose one or two a year at most. (the national average would presume 5-10)

I have mentioned on here a number of times, that I do some things a little different to many. I feed later, I autumn treat later, I thymolise syrup (HM's recipe ), I trickle, and not disturb them at any other time until February. (I am not saying this is the right way of doing things, only what seems to be right for my circumstances\microclimate etc)

So far, I 'may' have been lucky. What I do not believe is your success is solely down to not trickling\vaping, but through a number of good management skills throughout the year.

Despite losing few over winter, I am not blinkered to new methods, and perpetually trying new ideas on batches of hives.
I am not prepared to try vaping just yet, as I have other 'experiments' on the go at the moment.

 

[Arfermo]

Thanks.....2mm steel I can get cut to size!

Don't have an issue with cost!

2 mm is quite heavy and not nice to handle in cold weather like now. 1.5mm or even 1mm might be enough. Test flexing first - less is best providing it doesn't flex if you stuff above with, say, a bundle of rags thus letting the fumes waft everywhere. Worse than glue sniffing but not as dangerous as some suggest if one gets a slight whiff at a distance.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

2 mm is quite heavy.

Why do people not suggest aluminium? Much lighter and I suspect less vulnerable to OA corrosion. Being workable you could probably bash in a couple of stiffening creases without too much bother: or screw on battens of some sort.

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Why do people not suggest aluminium? Much lighter and I suspect less vulnerable to OA corrosion. Being workable you could probably bash in a couple of stiffening creases without too much bother: or screw on battens of some sort.

I used an aluminium sheet with my varrox. No corrosion seen at all after 10 uses! And yes, very light.

 

[Apple]

I said get it right in the first place and losses will be low. How do you think my bees have survived with such few losses? I have treated in the autumn, fed them full and left them tucked up for the worst of the winter months with no, or minimum, interference from me. It is not rocket science to work out why my losses are seemingly so much less than those of many others. Most certainly not down to trickling oxalic acid over them in the depths of winter, as I have not trickled oxalic in winter - getting on for ten years.


Thanks Oliver 90 Owner

Just because an "expert" beekeeping book author copy and pasted bad advice at a time when little research had been implemented with OA treatments, does not mean it it compulsory for beginners to do it !


James