Varroa

[MuswellMetro]

<ADD>I understand</ADD> VD can breed in AM worker cells as well as drone, but not in AC worker cells. Maybe that's where we end up. <ADD>Actually, I cannot now source that comment, so be careful with it. They groom more than AM, which provides a defence</ADD> <ADDADD> Here http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-017-1343-6_24 </ADDADD>

What you say is correct for Varroa Jacobsonii by there are 20+ different haplotypes and one has been renamed Varroa destructor because it is larger and

Recent testing has shown that unlike Varroa jacobsoni that Varroa destructor can reproduce in Apis ceranae worker cells but doesn't normally choose to

I've also seen some references to Apis ceranae drone larva dying if two mother Varroa lay eggs in the same capped drone cell
't

 

[victor meldrew]

I have kept bees from the pre varroa years !
I have witnessed attempts at detection using tobacco smoke.
I have witnessed the arrival of the varroa mite .
I have witnessed the devastation wreaked by the varroa mite.
I witnessed the detection of the mites resistance to Bayvoral and Apistan.
I treat my bees against Varroa annually , I know they are in there!
I have ( due to the vagaries of the weather) missed treating the odd colony and been shocked by the rapid increase of varroa numbers in said colonies.

We have to remember that it is Apis cerana that has developed a coping strategy helped no doubt by time (we haven't got) and the fact that the cerana drone is the same size as mellifica worker .
Yes pheromones play their part but honestly ,as a forum frequented by mainly hobbyist Beekeepers I think we should be actively encouraging treatment and let those of the leave alone persuasion to get on with their experiments rather than push their theories to the hobbyist in general!
Point being ,the average beekeeper isn't equipped to sustain the inevitable losses .
Bees rob and bees rob from weak failing varroa devastated colonies .
It's ok testing theory in isolation but inflicting the failing colonies onto surrounding apiaries is plain selfish and foolish I may add!
I have no wish to start WW3 but I feel it time I put my opinion to the forum!
VM


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[The Drone Ranger]

Meaning?

Lol!
I didn't treat and 3 out of my 4 hives didn't make it through the winter
I looked on a map of varroa infested areas and saw I was outside it
I thought this meant somebody else was doing the brain work for me
I was wrong

Have you succeeded in not treating your hives for several seasons and still have bees if so then hats off to you and your bees

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Looks like a day with your old comrades has promptred you to dig your trusty battered tin hat out VM
Me, I'm going to take the Swiss stance on this - sit on the sidelines and listen to the cuckoo clocks

 

[victor meldrew]

Looks like a day with your old comrades has promptred you to dig your old tin hat out VM
Me, I'm going to take the Swiss stance on this - sit on the sidelines and listen to the cuckoo clocks

Agent Provocateur ?
I ain't biting
VM


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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Agent Provocateur ?
I ain't biting
VM


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Not me VM just hoping that common sense prevails, which I think it is.

 

[Dishmop]

Lol!
I didn't treat and 3 out of my 4 hives didn't make it through the winter
I looked on a map of varroa infested areas and saw I was outside it
I thought this meant somebody else was doing the brain work for me
I was wrong

Have you succeeded in not treating your hives for several seasons and still have bees if so then hats off to you and your bees

This is just the point I am making....
I'm not telling anybody not to treat or that bees wont die from varroa.. my experience shows that mine havent died because I didnt treat.

The evidence points to the fact that they might die. Not that they will die.
Do you know that your losses were because of varroa, or is that your assumption?
What would your thoughts have been if you had treated and they died?

 

[Norfolk]

Looks like a day with your old comrades has promptred you to dig your trusty battered tin hat out VM
Me, I'm going to take the Swiss stance on this - sit on the sidelines and listen to the cuckoo clocks

I'm with you on this, it's giving me brain ache

 

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Dishmop
I think Victor Meldrew has it covered really
What I will just add is that if you have a look at the graph (link) I posted earlier in the thread, you can see that the varroa population in the hive can be reduced to almost nil.
The cost is minimal and there is no harm to the bees just a couple of Winter treatments will do it.
If that is preceeded by an autumn thymol or similar treatment to reduce the damage mites will do to the larva which become your Winter bees then that gives the bees the best chance of being there in Spring

I'm not sure what there is more I can say on the subject except it is simple to treat , it is inexpensive, it's highly effective and yet there are people who believe that there is some logic in not doing so.

But I still like the teddy bear and the hive what are the orange things

 

[Suzi Q]

I have kept bees from the pre varroa years !
I have witnessed attempts at detection using tobacco smoke.
I have witnessed the arrival of the varroa mite .
I have witnessed the devastation wreaked by the varroa mite.
I witnessed the detection of the mites resistance to Bayvoral and Apistan.
I treat my bees against Varroa annually , I know they are in there!
I have ( due to the vagaries of the weather) missed treating the odd colony and been shocked by the rapid increase of varroa numbers in said colonies.

We have to remember that it is Apis cerana that has developed a coping strategy helped no doubt by time (we haven't got) and the fact that the cerana drone is the same size as mellifica worker .
Yes pheromones play their part but honestly ,as a forum frequented by mainly hobbyist Beekeepers I think we should be actively encouraging treatment and let those of the leave alone persuasion to get on with their experiments rather than push their theories to the hobbyist in general!
Point being ,the average beekeeper isn't equipped to sustain the inevitable losses .
Bees rob and bees rob from weak failing varroa devastated colonies .
It's ok testing theory in isolation but inflicting the failing colonies onto surrounding apiaries is plain selfish and foolish I may add!I have no wish to start WW3 but I feel it time I put my opinion to the forum!
VM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As someone who has had experience of the above, a sudden, unexplained and massive increase of varroa a month after treatment,

 

[Dishmop]

it's highly effective and yet there are people who believe that there is some logic in not doing so.

the logic is related to the fact that they have found that thier bees survived without it, whereas your logic in treating is that you lost 3 hives because you didnt treat...and am I correct in thinking that you dont really know why they died? many people lost hives last winter because of weather, queens mating too late, and no doubt poking around too much when there was no need to.

Example. "When I looked in December there was no brood"

I've never been able to see whats on the frames until I pull them out, and certainly not by "just a quick peek".

 

[victor meldrew]

My bees were treated with OA mid Winter!
I lost one colony to isolation starvation and Queenlessness. ,
I don't peek .
I take a squat flask containing warmed OA doped syrup.crown board off, seams trickled, fondant on ,crown board back on . Taken me longer to type than to treat!
Vm


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[Finman]

As someone who has had experience of the above, a sudden, unexplained and massive increase of varroa a month after treatment,

I have own experience that varroa can destroy a 5 box hive in one month.
I believe that my hive robbed a weak badly contaminated chimney hive and got a huge mite load from that. Then mites went into brood in September and almost all winter brood (8 frames) were badly injured. After couple of weeks the colony had only 2 frames of bees.

It is said too that in severe robbing case the victim bees join to the robber hive. I do not know.

That is rare, but more common is a style how huge hive reduces its brooding before winter, but mite number multiply itself per larva number. It may happen in a big hive that it gets not at all healty winter bees-

.

 

[The Drone Ranger]

the logic is related to the fact that they have found that thier bees survived without it, whereas your logic in treating is that you lost 3 hives because you didnt treat...and am I correct in thinking that you dont really know why they died? many people lost hives last winter because of weather, queens mating too late, and no doubt poking around too much when there was no need to.

Example. "When I looked in December there was no brood"

I've never been able to see whats on the frames until I pull them out, and certainly not by "just a quick peek".

Sorry Dishmop
I'm talking about 2002 season when I lost 3 of 4
At that time DWV was the most common indicator that something was seriously wrong
The most hives I have had is 35
Last year I only overwintered 15
this winter going in with 26
I don't base my decision to treat on the one incident I only use it to illustrate the danger of not treating when you have few hives
I don't think the argument for not treating is likely to be made by concentrating on my inability to discern the cause of death by scientific investigation.
When a car drives over you it's only a doctor who might identify the cause of death as ruptured spleen
The rest of us just say heck he was run over by a car

 

[Norfolk]

........It is said too that in severe robbing case the victim bees join to the robber hive. I do not know....

.

That would make perfect sense to me though.
They are not "collectively" a stupid animal and have an overriding desire to survive like everything else in the natural world.

 

[Luminos]

But I still like the teddy bear and the hive what are the orange things

They're jars of honey

 

[The Drone Ranger]

They're jars of honey

Thanks for that Luminos
Attention to detail
I would never have figured that out

 

[Dishmop]

They're jars of honey

and theres more than 2...

 

[Neil]

What can I say, millions of years of evolution maybe we should leave it down to natural selection as we might be doing more harm than good?

 

[Finman]

What can I say, millions of years of evolution maybe we should leave it down to natural selection as we might be doing more harm than good?

I know what I do. No doubt. I try to do harm to varroa and to evolution.

Natural evolution likes to kill my hives with climate and with varroa, and I am going to be better than evolution.

Evolution killed lazy beekeepers and their hives 20 years ago from my country. ...Amen.
After that beekeeping has been very pleasant job here. Biggest thanks to instrumental insemination and extinction of black bees.

Varroa is much more easier opponent than German black bee. That is why mite is my friend.

What a mesh evolution arranged by the help of black bee, but now it is all funny memories.
.