Varroa Treatment

[pargyle]

I'm hoping to pick up a swarm or perhaps two in spring this year from my local association swarm collector and bait hives... the likelihood (in this area) is that it's going to be Varroa infested to some extent and possibly quite badly infested.

I'm averse to heavy chemical treatments but recognise that, in order to give the bees a chance, that I may need to treat them for Varroa ... at least initially.

So ... looking at Admin's table of treatments, in this section, the least noxious chemical treatment currently appears to be Apilife-VAR.

My understanding is that the bees walk over the strips and this spreads the treatment through the hive and kills the Varroa. My hives are TBH and have a 'periscope' entrance, they are new hives and bars so the bees will be building new comb.

Whilst the usual method for this type of treatment is to hang the strips in between the frames I have worries about the contamination that appears to result from them being within the body of the hive.

If I were to find a way to site the strips in the periscope entrance then the bees would still be walking over them but the actual treatment would be away from the comb. I do recognise that there could still be Varroa on the comb and on the non-flying bees but, presumably, as the treatment is recommended over a 2 week period (at 3 week intervals) a fair percentage of the bees would be exposed to the treatment whilst coming and going.

I would prefer not to treat at all but I'm a pragmatist and a one-off initial Varroa bash would not offend my principles unduly if it helped a colony get established.

I would be following this up with other non-chemical treatments as the season progresses.

Any ideas ... constructive comments ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

A swarm,having no brood,is ripe for treating just the once with Oxalic.

 

[ian]

Hi

Why are you worried about a thymol based product being in the hive, and as above Oxalic is ideal for swarms


Ian

 

[For want of a better word]

A swarm,having no brood,is ripe for treating just the once with Oxalic.

I vaporise, and put a queen excluder under the BB for a couple of days... also feed 1:1...
and they still disappear in the classic "V formation" a few days later !

 

[pargyle]

Hi

Why are you worried about a thymol based product being in the hive, and as above Oxalic is ideal for swarms


Ian

It's a pretty strong smell.. therefore it imust be pervading in the hive ... the bees obviously don't like it if the following thread is to be believed ?

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13743&highlight=apilife-VAR

 

[ian]

Hi

You mentioned chemical treatments in your first post, so i thought you were just trying to avoid those,hence the question.The fact the bees dont like it is part the reason some of these thymol based treatments work. They incourage good house keeping and grooming.

It should also be said that thymol treatments stand a good chance of making a newly hive swarm abscond, they often do it at the best of times. Thymol also relies on temperature and the vapours being condensed/confined so postioning near the entrance is likely to make it less effective


Ian

 

[MuswellMetro]

how about suger rolling in icing sugar with the hive on OMF will at least a 2" gap to any obstruction or varroa board under the floor...The only time i would use icing sugar as all the mites are phoretic


but why worry, even if the old hive had a heavy mite load 80% of them will be left in the old brood and a further 10% phoretic on the bees that remained behind

so....1000 mites.....only 100 phoretic mites on your swarm bees assuming you have half the old hive bees

swarms are normally quite clean

caste can be a higher %.......800 left in the brood becomes say increse to 900 and of these 300 have emegered in the 5 days....50% of them go with he caste...so 150 ish mites on less that a quarter of the original hive bees

thats how feral bees survive varroa in my opinion......flack hat on

 

[pargyle]

Hi

You mentioned chemical treatments in your first post, so i thought you were just trying to avoid those,hence the question.The fact the bees dont like it is part the reason some of these thymol based treatments work. They incourage good house keeping and grooming.

It should also be said that thymol treatments stand a good chance of making a newly hive swarm abscond, they often do it at the best of times. Thymol also relies on temperature and the vapours being condensed/confined so postioning near the entrance is likely to make it less effective


Ian

Yes ... I was/am trying to avoid chemical treatments ... Thymol based treatments seemed the least 'chemical' available. However, there seem to be disadvantages insomuch as the bees clearly don't like them ...

The periscope entrance on my hives is a confined space - it's a rectangular tube about 1" x 3" x 8" (Deoth, width, height) leading to the 3/8" holes for the hive entrances. So, whilst it would clearly be less effective it would confine the vapour largely to the periscope. Having said that, it looks very much as though it may lead to the bees absconding which would be counter productive.

What's my alternatives ?

Wait until the colony has become established and then try the ApilifeVar ?

Drench them with Oxalic before they start comb building ?

I also considered sugar dusting the swarm ?

The hive has an OMF and sub floor so I can monitor any drop.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Yes ... I was/am trying to avoid chemical treatments ... Thymol based treatments seemed the least 'chemical' available. However, there seem to be disadvantages insomuch as the bees clearly don't like them ...

The periscope entrance on my hives is a confined space - it's a rectangular tube about 1" x 3" x 8" (Deoth, width, height) leading to the 3/8" holes for the hive entrances. So, whilst it would clearly be less effective it would confine the vapour largely to the periscope. Having said that, it looks very much as though it may lead to the bees absconding which would be counter productive.

What's my alternatives ?

Wait until the colony has become established and then try the ApilifeVar ?

Drench them with Oxalic before they start comb building ?

I also considered sugar dusting the swarm ?

The hive has an OMF and sub floor so I can monitor any drop.

see my previous post...do nothing, the bees have cleaned themselves

 

[ian]

Hi

Muswells suggestion of a sugar dusting may be best for you, waitng till they are established misses a easy broodless treatment period when treatments like oxalic and dusting are effective.

You do have to be realistic though in what bees do and don't like, they probably don't like us taking the roof off their house. And they probably like blood sucking parasites even less.


Ian

 

[pargyle]

see my previous post...do nothing, the bees have cleaned themselves

Thanks for that MM ... posts crossed whilst I was writing next one .... it looks like I may be worrying unecessarily. My OMF has a tray beneath it nearly 3" deep so there's little chance of a mite getting back into the hive once it's down there and I also thought about a sticky sheet just to make sure.

I have about a dozen rolls of sticky backed plastic (No ... I was not a Blue Peter addict - it's a long story) and I reckon that this stuff with the backing paper removed and pinned sticky side up would make a great Varroa trap under the OMF.

 

[oliver90owner]

Muswells suggestion of a sugar dusting

Another post misread! MM did not mention sugar dusting! Amazing these games of 'chinese whispers'.

Sugar rolling and culling the first capped brood is very effective IMO. Sugar dusting - I don't bother with that.

 

[Moggs]

I'm a bit puzzled. They may have a high varroa load. You are loathe to treat. If a pet dog was infested with fleas, would we withhold treatment?

Treatments have been approved by the VMD. OK, we would probably all prefer to have bees in the strongest of health. We don't.

I wouldn't be deliberating and second-guessing the treatment strategy. An ideal time to hit varroa, hard. Do yourself, your bees and neighbouring beekeepers a favour, is my advice. Or revisit later in the year when brood cells are riddled with the damned things?

They either have varroa that warrants effective treatment or they don't.

 

[ian]

Hi Oliver

Don't think i miss read anything, the question was asked with regard to a swarm so dusting or rolling amounts to the same thing and MM suggested that. As to the method of treatment i would go with oxalic myself if they needed it, but pargyle wanted something a little more organic!!!

Ian

 

[pargyle]

Muswells suggestion of a sugar dusting

Another post misread! MM did not mention sugar dusting! Amazing these games of 'chinese whispers'.

Sugar rolling and culling the first capped brood is very effective IMO. Sugar dusting - I don't bother with that.

I actually know the difference between sugar dusting and sugar rolling (the latter is something I've not seen a lot of evidence of in the UK) but I hadn't considered sugar rolling as an option with a newly hived swarm.. Having shook them into my TBH I have no idea how it would be possible to go through it a few hundred bees at a time, getting them into a jar and shaking them up with sugar and sifting out the Varroa. But ... I'm open to suggestions about the best way to do it.

My understanding of sugar dusting is that it disloges the Varroa as they can't cling on to the icing sugar and it encourages the bees to clean themselves which also assists. If this is the case then surely, as long as the swarm is well dusted, wouldn't dusting have a similar if perhaps slighly less effective result ?

I appreciate the suggestion for culling the first capped brood ....at least any drone brood anyway. Not keen on wholesale slaughter but as a one off and for the benefit of the colony as a whole it is an option.

 

[pargyle]

I'm a bit puzzled. They may have a high varroa load. You are loathe to treat. If a pet dog was infested with fleas, would we withhold treatment?

Treatments have been approved by the VMD. OK, we would probably all prefer to have bees in the strongest of health. We don't.

I wouldn't be deliberating and second-guessing the treatment strategy. An ideal time to hit varroa, hard. Do yourself, your bees and neighbouring beekeepers a favour, is my advice. Or revisit later in the year when brood cells are riddled with the damned things?

They either have varroa that warrants effective treatment or they don't.

Thanks Moggs ... you would probably note, if you re-read my original post, that my concern was that, if I am favoured with a swarm that IS infested with Varroa then what were my options. Bearing in mind that I try to avoid chemical treatments ... be that for my bees, my dog or myself. But, being a pragmatist, there are times when my principles may need to bend. Your helpful advice is much appreciated.

 

[ian]

Hi Pargyle

Think Oliver new what was intended but was just being pedantic.... An easy way to dust or roll a swarm is simply to apply the sugar directly before hiving.

If you have collected your swarm in a solid travel type box it makes things easy. Before hiving a swarm most of us would give the box a good rap to dislodge the bees to the floor, lift the lid and liberal dusting. put the lid back on and give them a shake or roll to keep Oliver happy Rap the box again and empty into your hive with mesh floor open. Job done

Hope that helps

Ian

 

[Moggs]

Thanks Moggs ... you would probably note, if you re-read my original post, that my concern was that, if I am favoured with a swarm that IS infested with Varroa then what were my options. Bearing in mind that I try to avoid chemical treatments ... be that for my bees, my dog or myself. But, being a pragmatist, there are times when my principles may need to bend. Your helpful advice is much appreciated.

Indeed, my advice relates to such a swarm - the one that causes concern for you. There are times when the most honourable of principles may need to bend. I won't tell anyone if you don't.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Pargyle

Think Oliver new what was intended but was just being pedantic.... An easy way to dust or roll a swarm is simply to apply the sugar directly before hiving.

If you have collected your swarm in a solid travel type box it makes things easy. Before hiving a swarm most of us would give the box a good rap to dislodge the bees to the floor, lift the lid and liberal dusting. put the lid back on and give them a shake or roll to keep Oliver happy Rap the box again and empty into your hive with mesh floor open. Job done

Hope that helps

Ian

Excellent Ian ... thanks for that ... very helpful. I await Olivers alternative suggestion with interest.

 

[ian]

Hi

Should have also said that the same method can be used with a spray or trickle with Oxalic.

Ian