Varroa Treatment

[Moggs]

To dust is to apply a light sprinkling, which IMO is a waste of sugar. To roll, on the other hand is to coat the bees in a much heavier application. Far more effective (and maybe worthwhile).

 

[ian]

Hi

Maybe should of said.....Create a veritable sand storm of sugar

 

[ian]

Hi

Maybe should of said.....Create a veritable sand storm of sugar And of course a tropical rain storm of Oxalic

 

[pargyle]

Hi

Maybe should of said.....Create a veritable sand storm of sugar And of course a tropical rain storm of Oxalic

Buy Tate & Lyle shares in readiness for a massive increase in value about May time ! Not sure about the OA

 

[For want of a better word]

IMO is a waste of sugar

 

[Skyhook]

Having treated 2 broodless colonies (won't bore you with the details) with OA this autumn, I'm a definite +1 for OA- the colonies sprang back practically mite-free, best result I've had.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi Oliver

Don't think i miss read anything, the question was asked with regard to a swarm so dusting or rolling amounts to the same thing and MM suggested that. As to the method of treatment i would go with oxalic myself if they needed it, but pargyle wanted something a little more organic!!!

Ian

hmmmmm not quite right, sugar rolling involves a lot more icing sugar and you shake/role the bees in the swarm box/Skep before adding to a hive with frames and the bees are all white, you can do this as they have no brood

if you used the same amount of icing sugar when dusting it would clog the brood, icing sugar dusting is not so benign as "so called natural bekkeprs" say it is...it can kill brood....use the varroa lifecycle against it, not actions that debilate the bees

but i still dont know why you would bother..a swarm consisting of 50% of the old hive has one tenth the load of mites as the old hiv...that is better than an apiguard application in Autumn....78%-85% if you are lucky

 

[pargyle]

hmmmmm not quite right, sugar rolling involves a lot more icing sugar and you shake/role the bees in the swarm box/Skep before adding to a hive with frames and the bees are all white, you can do this as they have no brood

if you used the same amount of icing sugar when dusting it would clog the brood, icing sugar dusting is not so benign as "so called natural bekkeprs" say it is...it can kill brood

So ... with a shook swarm in a box/skep with a 'lot' of icing sugar (any idea how much ?) when there is no brood then it's a viable option ? Won't hurt the bees ?

 

[oliver90owner]

the question was asked with regard to a swarm so dusting or rolling amounts to the same thing

No it does not.

Job done

Not properly, by any means.

...Think Oliver new what was intended but was just being pedantic....

Not being pedantic at all. It is all too common that posts are misread or just not understood. This was one of those. The processes are very different. The results are very different.

I don't know which of the above was the case here, but later poster/readers may get the complete wrong impression of what is sugar rolling and what is pansy sugar dusting.

MM's description above demonstrates the difference to those that either don't know or mistakenly think the two processes are the same, I hope.

RAB

 

[pargyle]

Thanks everyone, been an interesting evening - I've learnt a bit more and there's obviously been a fair amount of interest in the thread as well.

So ... the next question will be ... what's the least invasive follow up treatments for Varroa after the swarm is hived and hopefully building a thriving colony ? How soon after and what do you recommend ? Or should treatment just be based on Varroa drop ?

Bear in mind my, albeit pragmatic, aversion to chemical treatments.

I know there are some beeks who manage without treating their hives but, as a hobby beekeeper, I can't afford to risk losing colonies as a result of allowing Varroa to reach uncontrolled levels. So where's the trick in reaching a 'no treatment' state ?

Play nicely please ....

 

[For want of a better word]

This guy Mel Disselkoln has something to say about "Dusting" that may be of interest... fine particulates block honeybees trachea and cause asphyxiation/death... main subject is an advancement on the Millar method of notching, but a few anecdotes of note along the way.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21764

 

[madasafish]

Thanks everyone, been an interesting evening - I've learnt a bit more and there's obviously been a fair amount of interest in the thread as well.

So ... the next question will be ... what's the least invasive follow up treatments for Varroa after the swarm is hived and hopefully building a thriving colony ? How soon after and what do you recommend ? Or should treatment just be based on Varroa drop ?

Bear in mind my, albeit pragmatic, aversion to chemical treatments.

I know there are some beeks who manage without treating their hives but, as a hobby beekeeper, I can't afford to risk losing colonies as a result of allowing Varroa to reach uncontrolled levels. So where's the trick in reaching a 'no treatment' state ?

Play nicely please ....

Pargyle

Will reply later - at some length...based on what I have done - not yet treatment free after 4 years. I suspect with few hives you are looking at a 5 year timespan project.

 

[Skyhook]

Thanks everyone, been an interesting evening - I've learnt a bit more and there's obviously been a fair amount of interest in the thread as well.

So ... the next question will be ... what's the least invasive follow up treatments for Varroa after the swarm is hived and hopefully building a thriving colony ? How soon after and what do you recommend ? Or should treatment just be based on Varroa drop ?

Bear in mind my, albeit pragmatic, aversion to chemical treatments.

I know there are some beeks who manage without treating their hives but, as a hobby beekeeper, I can't afford to risk losing colonies as a result of allowing Varroa to reach uncontrolled levels. So where's the trick in reaching a 'no treatment' state ?

Play nicely please ....

That probably depends on your definition of a treatment, given that, while there are people working on mite tolerant bees, they are certainly not an off-the-shelf solution at the moment. If you want to avoid chemicals you are going to need to manage against the condition. Some people I know perform annual shook swarms, discarding all brood at the time- but to me this is far more invasive than a drop of oxalic or thymol.

.

 

[Skyhook]

[I don't know which of the above was the case here, but later poster/readers may get the complete wrong impression of what is sugar rolling and what is pansy sugar dusting.
RAB

No, THIS is pansy sugar dusting, properly carried out.

 

[pargyle]

That probably depends on your definition of a treatment, given that, while there are people working on mite tolerant bees, they are certainly not an off-the-shelf solution at the moment. If you want to avoid chemicals you are going to need to manage against the condition. Some people I know perform annual shook swarms, discarding all brood at the time- but to me this is far more invasive than a drop of oxalic or thymol.

.

Agree .. quite a wasteful method dumping brood & comb every year. I knew it was not going to be an 'instant' fix ... just interested in how those who are achieving 'chemical free' got there. As I keep saying, I'm a pragmatist, so ... I accept that my principles may need to bend ~ particularly in the early days (years ?) of the colonies.

 

[Finman]

, the least noxious chemical treatment currently appears to be Apilife-VAR.
?

when you treat a swarm, and it is really a good idea, Apilife is a good stuff.
It is a thymol based and other thymol stuffs are as good.

You may treat the colony before it has capped brood.
If the hive has brood, oxalic acid is not a choice, but if the hive has no brood, then OA is very good too.

.

 

[Finman]

Agree .. quite a wasteful method dumping brood & comb every year. .

You are right. It is biggest waste what I know.

Beekeeper should build up his colonies and not to kill them.


Formic acid and thymol are used to treat hives which have brood.

.

 

[Finman]

while there are people working on mite tolerant bees,
.

I have not met that in UK you may get mite tolerant bees. And if you catch swarms, it is better to treat them.

and killing brood from hives, good heavens. What a lesson to a beginner!!!

Skyhook, you must have "beekeeper tolerant bees".

 

[Skyhook]

I have not met that in UK you may get mite tolerant bees. And if you catch swarms, it is better to treat them.

and killing brood from hives, good heavens. What a lesson to a beginner!!!

Skyhook, you must have "beekeeper tolerant bees".

Read again, Finman- this isn't my practice, and I don't recommend it, I was using it as an illustration of how there are worse things than chemicals.

 

[Skyhook]

You are right. It is biggest waste what I know.

Beekeeper should build up his colonies and not to kill them.


Formic acid and thymol are used to treat hives which have brood.

.

How good is formic? I come across it mentioned, but I don't know anyone who uses it.