Varroa in 'Complacent Numbers'

[B_north]

There was a discussion on another forum, I will have to look it up, that suggested the resistance found in some parts of the US could be time sensitive. In areas where overuse of Apistan lead to resistance and the beekeepers stopped using it for a period of years, some are able to use it again effectively.

That said, it would be folly to blindly trust the effectiveness of any treatment unless you are on scheduled treatment cycles and treat anyway without mite checks.

We are noticing, for the first time locally, some resistance to Apivar. A beekeeper I know sometimes leaves the strips in all winter. Why,

 

[JamezF]

There was a discussion on another forum, I will have to look it up, that suggested the resistance found in some parts of the US could be time sensitive. In areas where overuse of Apistan lead to resistance and the beekeepers stopped using it for a period of years, some are able to use it again effectively.

I can't claim to have a deep understanding of how these things work, but I guess it's possible that once the selection pressure is removed there's no penalty for mutations that disable or remove resistance. Combined with non-resistant varroa coming into the area from elsewhere, that could perhaps end up with the population being mostly non-resistant once again, so it might look "time dependent" but actually just be a feature of how genetic inheritance plays out in a large population. I could be completely wrong though. I have enough trouble following what happens with mutations in the gene pool of a "normal" diploid population (mammals, say), never mind the haploid male/diploid female/same parent thing that varroa have going on.

We are noticing, for the first time locally, some resistance to Apivar. A beekeeper I know sometimes leaves the strips in all winter. Why,

That's crazy. I assume he thinks he's protecting himself from the problem when in fact he's actually potentially making it worse for everyone.

James

 

[B_north]

That's crazy. I assume he thinks he's protecting himself from the problem when in fact he's actually potentially making it worse for everyone.

*sigh* I know and I am sure he is not the only one that does this. Hence, lots of dead bee hives last year because the beekeepers relied on a treatment which was working fine, until it didn't.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A beekeeper I know sometimes leaves the strips in all winter. Why,

Probably because he can't be arsed to remove them.

 

[NICK HODSON]

Hi all. I have 5 hives and hve been learning the ancient art of beekeeping for 5 years. I have never treated any of my bees for Varoa. I have never lost a hive. I have a NHS background am of the school that while we treat any infection or infestation we are always one step behind and by continual treatment often remove the opportunity to build natural resistance. I believe this to be the case with varoa. Over the past few 100s of thousands of years before we started our partnership with bees they will have been exposed to and subjected to many external threats without human intervention and are still with us. I also take a minimalist approach to entering my hives. If bees are bringing nectar home there are babies to feed. If there are babies there is a queen laying eggs! I do of course inspect at key points in the year and occasionally split to prevent swarming. I also collect my own swarming bees as through observation I know where they go and provide a ready made home for them th occupy. This observational approach seems to have served me well. Oh yes and my bees gratiously supply me with large amounts of beautiful honey.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi all. I have 5 hives and hve been learning the ancient art of beekeeping for 5 years. I have never treated any of my bees for Varoa. I have never lost a hive. I have a NHS background am of the school that while we treat any infection or infestation we are always one step behind and by continual treatment often remove the opportunity to build natural resistance. I believe this to be the case with varoa. Over the past few 100s of thousands of years before we started our partnership with bees they will have been exposed to and subjected to many external threats without human intervention and are still with us. I also take a minimalist approach to entering my hives. If bees are bringing nectar home there are babies to feed. If there are babies there is a queen laying eggs! I do of course inspect at key points in the year and occasionally split to prevent swarming. I also collect my own swarming bees as through observation I know where they go and provide a ready made home for them th occupy. This observational approach seems to have served me well. Oh yes and my bees gratiously supply me with large amounts of beautiful honey.

Do you think you could post this as a new thread in the treatment free section. Thanks

 

[pargyle]

Do you think you could post this as a new thread in the treatment free section. Thanks

Cannon fodder ?

 

[Wilco]

Hi all. I have 5 hives and hve been learning the ancient art of beekeeping for 5 years. I have never treated any of my bees for Varoa. I have never lost a hive. I have a NHS background am of the school that while we treat any infection or infestation we are always one step behind and by continual treatment often remove the opportunity to build natural resistance. I believe this to be the case with varoa. Over the past few 100s of thousands of years before we started our partnership with bees they will have been exposed to and subjected to many external threats without human intervention and are still with us. I also take a minimalist approach to entering my hives. If bees are bringing nectar home there are babies to feed. If there are babies there is a queen laying eggs! I do of course inspect at key points in the year and occasionally split to prevent swarming. I also collect my own swarming bees as through observation I know where they go and provide a ready made home for them th occupy. This observational approach seems to have served me well. Oh yes and my bees gratiously supply me with large amounts of beautiful honey.

Pollen might be a better indication than nectar.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pollen might be a better indication than nectar.

I've seen queenless (therefore broodless and bereft of 'babies') hives bring in both pollen and nectar so not a good method of diagnosis at all

 

[Erichalfbee]

Cannon fodder ?

What have I missed? The chap doesn’t treat his bees
The treatment free section exists just for TF beekeepers to discuss their beekeeping.
Just like swarm’s black bee thread.

 

[user 20297]

What have I missed? The chap doesn’t treat his bees
The treatment free section exists just for TF beekeepers to discuss their beekeeping.
Just like swarm’s black bee thread.

Well said. For me, the TF section is also a place that gives me, (as someone who does treat their bees), somewhere to find out about the experiences and techniques of those who don't treat.

 

[pargyle]

What have I missed? The chap doesn’t treat his bees
The treatment free section exists just for TF beekeepers to discuss their beekeeping.
Just like swarm’s black bee thread.

At present it's in the beginners section so we are all playing nicely... on past performance non-treaters tend to get a fair bit of stick the other side of the fence...I assumed that the play nicely rule did not extend to the TF section ... we shall see.

 

[Erichalfbee]

At present it's in the beginners section so we are all playing nicely... on past performance non-treaters tend to get a fair bit of stick the other side of the fence...

But they have their own section and we make sure they play nicely.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well Nick has been in since I asked him and doesn’t seem to want to post there which is a shame.

 

[pargyle]

But they have their own section and we make sure there’s no rubbish.

Well that's alright then.. I was only saying that in the beginners section he's safe to play...I did not realise we were going to ring fence the TF section as well.

 

[pargyle]

Well Nick has been in since I asked him and doesn’t seem to want to post there which is a shame.

Well.. If he's read some of the posts when TF came up in the past I'm not really surprised .

 

[user 20297]

But they have their own section and we make sure they play nicely.

This is weird; @pargyle is more or less a non-treater based on several , previous postings that I have seen. As far as I know, he's not deliberately antagonistic to the "cause" of TF, and he's a moderator and as you say, can.....well,......put out the fuses of any cannon. So, why speculate on the fact that maybe @NICK HODSON is stepping into the line of fire.
So far, the only responses have been on whether or not he's going to get "stick" and some polite, accurate observations on what may be flaws in his observational technique.
Give us more Nick.

 

[pargyle]

This is weird; @pargyle is more or less a non-treater based on several , previous postings that I have seen. As far as I know, he's not deliberately antagonistic to the "cause" of TF, and he's a moderator and as you say, can.....well,......put out the fuses of any cannon. So, why speculate on the fact that maybe @NICK HODSON is stepping into the line of fire.
So far, the only responses have been on whether or not he's going to get "stick" and some polite, accurate observations on what may be flaws in his observational technique.
Give us more Nick.

I don't treat my bees... and there are quite a few on here that are also TF. Most of us are happy to take the flack. My concern was that there have been some previous TF threads in the open forum that have rapidly gone South and beginners need a bit of protection sometimes.