Varroa count during Apiguard treatment - any significance?

[Bob Bee]

Beware of over-dose.
There will be a reason why the manufacturers don't suggest putting a third tray on.

 

[TOBY-3652]

oooops wont do it then will leave old one in for a extra week or 2

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Thats a hell of a drop Toby, surprised they could all fit on the board!

If it was me I wouldn't be worrying about overdosing that lot, they must be unlikely to make it through the winter without a serious prolonged attack.

 

[Flatters]

Toby
Just out of interest was this a new colony this year or did you have them last year and treated them over the autumn/winter 2010?

 

[TOBY-3652]

It was a 6 frame nuc that i purchased end of march. I split it when it was about to swarm and got 3 more nucs out of it . The nucs are in nationals now and they have dropped 1959 and about 1850.

 

[TOBY-3652]

Ment to say 2 more nucs out of it

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Hi I have my treatment in for 3 weeks the pattie is about half its size I wonder if it losses its vaule after a time? I also have seen a lot of the little buggers?

Robbie

 

[Skyhook]

Beware of over-dose.
There will be a reason why the manufacturers don't suggest putting a third tray on.

Well, they used to- I think it was in the FAQ's somewhere- can be extended to a 3rd treatment if required.

I thought my mites were getting resistant to it last year. they weren't, I just hadn't draught-proofed the hive enough. I also think it didn't help that I took the board out every day to count, thereby letting all the vapour out.

 

[Black Comb]

Re. the OP.
You haven't indicated the size of the colony - is it a full colony?

 

[MuswellMetro]

The instructions are on the outside of the box, but yes it's a bit odd that they are not on the trays, especially seeing as you can buy them individually. Or is that just people splitting packs for resale perhaps?

it also says a lot more on thier FAQs

how many of you take into account the size of the colony

A: To treat nuclei or small/weak colonies treat with only 1 x 25g Apiguard – no more than this. For small nuclei reduce this to half again (1 x 12.5g approx). Small (e.g. less than 5 frames) or weak colonies may not tolerate a 50g Apiguard dose and brood may be removed by the workers. If brood removal is seen, remove the product from the colony.

or those on brood and a half/ double brood

Can I use Apiguard with a brood and a half or a double brood ?
A: Yes, but bear in mind that the level of mite control may be slightly lower than with a single brood chamber, as the number of bees that need to receive treatment is higher. Most bees, brood and varroa will usually be in the lower brood chamber; place the Apiguard on top of the brood frames of the lower chamber and put the second brood chamber on top (ie the Apiguard is between the brood boxes). Repeat after 2 weeks,

it is not all on the box, that is just for a medium size single brood hive


i had a problem last year with a high drop hive so my vet prescribed APIVAR ( Amitraz)....the drop under apiguard was running constantly at 100 per day in week 5 in a 14x12...the dropped increase immediately to 500 on day on the first day of aplication and 200 per day thre after for 16 days then drop to 4, so the apiguard had only got about 60 % of the varroa

 

[ksjs]

Re. the OP.
You haven't indicated the size of the colony - is it a full colony?

Nuc purchased July, now in National bb, 6 frames brood (not fully covered with brood) and 5 stores. Brimming with bees.

I'll have a proper read of the DEFRA booklet and Vita's website to try and find the answer but if anybody does know whether mite count during treatment can be used as any sort of a population indicator I'd be interested to hear. Cheers...

 

[alanf]

i had a problem last year with a high drop hive so my vet prescribed APIVAR ( Amitraz)....the drop under apiguard was running constantly at 100 per day in week 5 in a 14x12...the dropped increase immediately to 500 on day on the first day of aplication and 200 per day thre after for 16 days then drop to 4, so the apiguard had only got about 60 % of the varroa

Don't quite follow the calculations. If 5 weeks of Apiguard produced 100 per day, that would be 3,500 mites. Following with Apivar saw 500 plus 16 days of 200, that's 3,700 and small numbers left. If there was an initial higher drop that you have not included, then 60% but the figures you quote run under 50%.

The manufacturers of Apiguard themselves claim 93% average on http://www.vita-europe.com at /products/Apiguard/#Apiguardaprovensuccess charting 88-97% in different trials.

Other studies have found lower success rates, a quick google trawl shows 56% here on http://www.apimondiafoundation.org at /foundation/files/141.pdf an average which is much closer to MM's experience with a single hive.

To return to ksjs's request "if anybody does know whether mite count during treatment can be used as any sort of a population indicator I'd be interested to hear":

There is evidence that a full Apiguard treatment within the manufacturers guidelines could drop anywhere from below 50% to 97% of the Varroa. The practical reading of this asking around my local BKA is that you have to treat for 4 weeks at least to cover all the mites lurking in sealed brood. If the drop has not tailed off by the fourth week, you might still have as many mites again remaining in the hive.

If the drop was very low anyway it's not a problem but if you have thousands over four weeks and the drop has not tailed off then your bees still have a mite problem. Leaving the Apiguard remains in for a couple of weeks longer might help, but it's not a complete remedy. You do have to consider further and varied treatment such as alternative treatments now or repeated oxalic treatments as soon as they are broodless.

That's pretty much as I'd see it until a better strategy comes along.

 

[Firefly]

I will probably place another tray in worst hives after 4 weeks the one thats dropped 5891 these are what i have counted off the board and i didnt grease it so it is probably a lot more than i have counted

Like everyone else, I'm in awe! How do you count that many? It took me a half hour with a magnifying glass and tweezers in full July sun to count 80!

 

[RoofTops]

Nuc purchased July, now in National bb, 6 frames brood (not fully covered with brood) and 5 stores. Brimming with bees.

I'll have a proper read of the DEFRA booklet and Vita's website to try and find the answer but if anybody does know whether mite count during treatment can be used as any sort of a population indicator I'd be interested to hear. Cheers...

Thymol treatment should be around 95% effective, it can be less and on occasion higher but 95% would be a good starting point, being hopefully a little on the conservative side. However, for simplicity you could also assume it is 100%, in which case the number of mites found toes up is/was the population of mites.

The main thing is to see towards the end of treatment the number falling each day reducing hopefully to nill, or very low.

 

[For want of a better word]

Like everyone else, I'm in awe! How do you count that many? It took me a half hour with a magnifying glass and tweezers in full July sun to count 80!

Having spent 7 of my formative and much misspent yoof gazing down a microscope and counting various blood cell using a haemocytometer here is the trick......

at least dilution factors need not be taken into consideration...

I use a clear polycarbonate sheet and after carefully withdrawing it from the inspection drawer ( or whatever you use) place the clear sheet with bugs attached on a sheet of white paper with squares drawn upon it... you can vary the number of squares for any particular size of drop for ease of counting. Small squares for high drops big for low.
then label each row 1,2,3,4,5 etc and each column a,b,c,d,e,f,g etc

count from the top row and put each squares count in a list against column / row. any bug that falls across the line is included on top and left and ignored for bottom and right
Then add up numbers.
DrS would be proud of me!!!!
DO NOT Feed varroa to tropical fish, thymol upsets their metabolism!

 

[Firefly]

...Then add up numbers.

Wow! And how many workers in your colony?

 

[darren64]

The instructions are on the outside of the box, but yes it's a bit odd that they are not on the trays, especially seeing as you can buy them individually. Or is that just people splitting packs for resale perhaps?

it is wrote on the outside of the box yes,but when I bought them individually last year the supplier (p***es)put in a note explaining how to use it.

 

[darren64]

7 only 7.. Wish i had only 7 one of mine has dropped 5981 in 24 days and 3 more have dropped 1959 and 1866 and 1152 really glad i treated

How on earth did you manage to count 5981 mites so accurately?

 

[TOBY-3652]

I just scrape them off the plastic tray with a penknife i will of missed some as they will of fallen of tray. I havent greased it/ day 28 today and 190 biggest day was 3rd i counted 800/ 4 = 600/5=418/6=255/7=300 then they were just under or over 200 till day20 then 240/374/277/250/274/230/261/and tonight 190 todate 7065..

 

[alanf]

I use a clear polycarbonate sheet and after carefully withdrawing it from the inspection drawer ( or whatever you use) place the clear sheet with bugs attached on a sheet of white paper with squares drawn upon it... you can vary the number of squares for any particular size of drop for ease of counting. Small squares for high drops big for low.
then label each row 1,2,3,4,5 etc and each column a,b,c,d,e,f,g etc

count from the top row and put each squares count in a list against column / row. any bug that falls across the line is included on top and left and ignored for bottom and right
Then add up numbers.

Very detailed, I'm impressed.

What works for me is a simplification, take the yellow correx board and draw lines across to divide into strips with the thinnest tipped spirit marker you can find. Each strip should be able to be covered with a hand lens, about 5 of the corrugations should do it. Number the strips if you want to avoid repeats or missing one. This is before you put the correx in the hive and before you put something sticky on the surface (vaseline/cooking oil?)

When the correx comes out run the lens along each strip, counting mites as you go. Some may be able to get away with less magnification but a hand lens helps distinguish mites from other debris.