Using standard Supers with Abelo 12 frame poly (top bee space)

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but to be honest - I wouldn't touch any hive with those rebates with a bargepole. I can just about accept them on nucs

 

[drex]

Since heat rises, where is the sense in putting low insulation value wood on top of a high insulation value poly.? Never bbeen able to figure that one out and never done it

 

[ericbeaumont]

I bought the new 12 frame Apolo on advice that they are fully compatible with standard BS gear.

You were advised wrongly.

The 11-frame Abelo kit is compatible with standard BS National entirely, but the 12-frame is compatible only with itself.

Decide soon what do do: apiary management is far less of a headache when you have commonality of kit, so either stick with the 12s (the QX is an operational mess, and as I recall, the extra cost of a dummy is needed), have a few designs in your apiary (noooo!) or change to 11s only.

 

[Rob H]

There’s a member here. Who makes deep lids from PIR instead of Abelo ones
That’s another saving. They won’t last as long but they will do pro tem

That sounds like a very good possibility for the future, do you remember who does this already? Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

That sounds like a very good possibility for the future, do you remember who does this already? Thanks

I've done a fruitless quick search for you.
This is what I cover my wooden hives with for winter. I take the abelo roofs off first.
You need to paint them and cover all mating surfaces inside and out with aluminium foil. These ones have the glued joints reinforced with bamboo skewers .
Easy enough to do them half as deep as a lid.

 

[markyfive]

If you can workaround that somehow your cedars will be flatpacked and you just set the frame height with the vertical positioning of the the end panels during assembly.ie set them high for bbs and low for tbs

The rebate in the two side rails needs to be deeper too, allowing the frames to sit lower

 

[Rob H]

I've done a fruitless quick search for you.
This is what I cover my wooden hives with for winter. I take the abelo roofs off first.
You need to paint them and cover all mating surfaces inside and out with aluminium foil. These ones have the glued joints reinforced with bamboo skewers .
Easy enough to do them half as deep as a lid.

View attachment 34762

That is a really neat job, thanks for sharing, they must be toast in there!!

 

[user 20297]

That is a really neat job, thanks for sharing, they must be toast in there!!

Let's hope not!

 

[Swarm]

The rebate in the two side rails needs to be deeper too, allowing the frames to sit lower

Those rebates are top space as they are, only when adding a bee space runner do you get bottom space configuration by lifting the top bars level with the top edge of the hive. By leaving out the frame runners you achieve bee space over the top bars and the bottom bars will be flush with the bottom of the box. Not really a big deal having no runners in supers where we are not lifting and inspecting frames, all my supers are like this.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi all, please go gently with me if Im asking something ridiculous!! Ive bought Abelo's 12 frame poly hives with a couple of Supers each, these are top bee space hives. As the price of individual poly supers is high Im probably going to purchase a bunch of cedar seconds in the upcoming sales and build them myself. Ive been scratching my head trying to work out how this configuration will work. Do I adapt the standard supers to become top bee space and if so what do I need to do or do I have a large gap between poly super and cedar super and then everything on top is bottom bee space?
Thanks for any help

I confess I'm a fan of the Abelo 11 frame poly national deep roof hives which are entirely compatible with standard wooden supers. I mostly use Abelo 11 frame supers but I do have a few wooden ones which I use to supplement space requirements if it's a good year. I've avoided moving to the 12 frame version on compatibility grounds.
I do have an 11 frame Abelo hive with the shallow roof but having used it for a while I'm not keen on the design and the lipped crown board/shallow roof now lives on a shelf in the shed. Not a great problem as I frequently swap out the poly crown board with a clear perspex one since the loose poly discs are generally a nuisance, falling about during inspections unless you glue them in place.
I have an excess of deep poly roofs as before I transitioned to the poly hives I bought a couple of the deep roofs to use on wooden hives.
I've seen and handled a few of the variations of poly hives on the market but of those I've seen only deep roof Abelo's11 frame ones deserve a place in my apiary.

 

[Rob H]

Let's hope not!

Guess my choice of phrase was little unfortunate there.....

 

[Rob H]

you are going to end up with a 'house that jack built' bodge job with rain water running in everywhere, just for the sake of saving a few quid

Only if your crap at what you do, anything is possible with a little knowledge, the right tools and some determination.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Only if your crap at what you do, anything is possible with a little knowledge, the right tools and some determination.

the boxes have different footprints it will be like trying to fit a large square peg into a smaller square hole regarldess of the tools or skills you have it's still going to be a bodge especially as you are trying to marry wood with poly

 

[steve1958]

I recently ordered an 11 frame hive with the deep roof, which includes 2 supers.
The national wooden supers do appear compatible with this Hive, which pleases me.

Since heat rises, where is the sense in putting low insulation value wood on top of a high insulation value poly.? Never bbeen able to figure that one out and never done it

Bearing in mind that I will only be using the additional wooden supers during warmer months when there is nectar being collected it shouldn't be an issue.
I shall be overwintering in all high insulation poly.

As time passes I may replace the wooden supers with new poly supers, but as this involves spending money it is unlikely to be very soon

 

[Rob H]

the boxes have different footprints it will be like trying to fit a large square peg into a smaller square hole regarldess of the tools or skills you have it's still going to be a bodge especially as you are trying to marry wood with poly

I’ll let you know how I get on!!

 

[Rob H]

I've done a fruitless quick search for you.
This is what I cover my wooden hives with for winter. I take the abelo roofs off first.
You need to paint them and cover all mating surfaces inside and out with aluminium foil. These ones have the glued joints reinforced with bamboo skewers .
Easy enough to do them half as deep as a lid.

View attachment 34762

They look superb

 

[BeeBird]

You were advised wrongly.

The 11-frame Abelo kit is compatible with standard BS National entirely, but the 12-frame is compatible only with itself.

Decide soon what do do: apiary management is far less of a headache when you have commonality of kit, so either stick with the 12s (the QX is an operational mess, and as I recall, the extra cost of a dummy is needed), have a few designs in your apiary (noooo!) or change to 11s only.

On the abelo website, 7 day poly sale section beneath the spec for the 12 frame national poly hive, Lawrence from BMH gives a review of the hive and demonstrates how national wooden boxes can be used in conjunction with the poly hive.
On his film it look’s like they will work together? Unless I’m missing something which is very possible.

 

[Erichalfbee]

On the abelo website, 7 day poly sale section beneath the spec for the 12 frame national poly hive, Lawrence from BMH gives a review of the hive and demonstrates how national wooden boxes can be used in conjunction with the poly hive.
On his film it look’s like they will work together? Unless I’m missing something which is very possible.

Yes I’ve just looked at it. It seems to work

 

[DocMartin]

Although very new to beekeeping I tried it last year on one of his colonies that was expanding rapidly. I carried out a Demaree but using a wooden brood box on top of the 12 frame poly super. Worked fine but drones got stuck in the upper queen excluder. Just wondering I should cut out some of the plastic bars to allow them to pass through.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Although very new to beekeeping I tried it last year on one of his colonies that was expanding rapidly. I carried out a Demaree but using a wooden brood box on top of the 12 frame poly super. Worked fine but drones got stuck in the upper queen excluder. Just wondering I should cut out some of the plastic bars to allow them to pass through.

Mine are the old style Abelo boxes. I mix wood and poly. I make an entrance below the top brood.