11 frame Abelo poly Ashforth feeder size ?

[luap321]

hi i have been watching the black mountian honey videos and one is; i think i have made the perfect hive
in which he uses the 11 frame Abelo poly ashforth feeder with a black plastic tray up side down for a roof and says this works well on a budget ,i would like to consider doing this but hesitate as i dont want to buy a feeder and find i cant get a tray the right size and have it looking like a bit of a lash up with a 4" over hang all round .
also does any one think Abelo may be going away from the 11 frame and just doing 12 in the future as i would like to one day get some more of there poly hive bits starting with a brood box next after a roof if i get one

 

[JamezF]

i dont want to buy a feeder and find i cant get a tray the right size and have it looking like a bit of a lash up

You'll never make a beekeeper with an attitude like that

James

 

[ericbeaumont]

Plastic tray will be OK in a warm summer, but not in colder weather.

Advantage of the poly feeder + the Abelo deep roof (note: no vents) is the gain in thermal efficiency. Clearly, a horticultural tray has almost zero efficiency, so you will need to find another solution at either end of the year.

The feeder-as-crownboard method came (at least, that is where I picked up the idea) from Murray McGregor at Denrosa. The Abelo works well as a crownboard, for syrup, fondant (turn it over) or as split board. If you run short, open the metal sliding gate and use it as a floor.

The stainless steel slotted baffle is a half-way house really, because although it prevents drowning it leaks heat into the box. Bees will show their dislike of the holes and propolise them closed. Murray leaves out baffles (he uses a similar poly feeder) and chucks in a load of straw, which gets the syrup cleared faster without drownings.

I wouldn't bother to spend on trays, but look in skips for building insulation board offcuts (the thicker the better). Cut the board oversize to give an overhang and add an 8mm rim, 460mm square, to the underside; seal the cut edges with a strong tape such as Gorilla. Paint them if you wish, and strap down or put a couple of bricks on top.

Cheaper still? Scrabble around for any old piece of kitchen cupboard (skip supplies) and prep to size as above.

dont want to buy a feeder and find i cant get a tray the right size and have it looking like a bit of a lash up with a 4" over hang all round .

Why not? If you can't afford it, that's understandable, but if you can you're wandering down a cul-de-sac without a clear plan, because the feeder is a versatile tool that performs five essential jobs that work out at £8.40 each.

does any one think Abelo may be going away from the 11 frame and just doing 12 in the future

Abelo have stated very clearly that they will continue to supply all National poly formats and as the 11-frame system is so good, it would be a daft commercial decision to abandon the market they lead. If you're unsure, ring Abelo and ask: they're approachable and knowledgeable.

Edit: the Abelo poly feeder is standard National at 460mm square.

 

[luap321]

@ericbeaumont thank you for your reply i had assumed that the bottom of the feeder was insulated but not thought about the heat escaping from the slotted baffle i had just watched the video and not questioned it ,i am sort of on a budget with it all, if i catch a swarm i can spend the money on a poly roof ,feeder and 14x12 if not i need to finish a 14x12 im making and a apex roof im copying my wbc roof with some thin galvanised shelves for the covering but so far spent the afternoon trying to sort out my saw bench ,blade stopped going up and down full strip and clean now the blade is about 2 mm out of line with the riving knife

Im glad Abelo will be keeping both as i would like the 11 frame i did read the 12 frame was easier to kill bees when re-assembling and i dont know if it would be interchangeable with wooden national parts which i feel is an important feature

 

[pargyle]

@ericbeaumont thank you for your reply i had assumed that the bottom of the feeder was insulated but not thought about the heat escaping from the slotted baffle i had just watched the video and not questioned it ,i am sort of on a budget with it all, if i catch a swarm i can spend the money on a poly roof ,feeder and 14x12 if not i need to finish a 14x12 im making and a apex roof im copying my wbc roof with some thin galvanised shelves for the covering but so far spent the afternoon trying to sort out my saw bench ,blade stopped going up and down full strip and clean now the blade is about 2 mm out of line with the riving knife

Im glad Abelo will be keeping both as i would like the 11 frame i did read the 12 frame was easier to kill bees when re-assembling and i dont know if it would be interchangeable with wooden national parts which i feel is an important feature

The important thing when you are starting out is to decide what format you like and stick with it - how you deal with getting hives in that format at the price you can afford is altogether another matter. You also have to consider that it's rarely a once only cost in beekeeping .. one set of kit is not enough ... and if the bug grabs you ... two, three or four is not going to be enough. Making kit yourself is a cheaper way of getting kit but there is a time, ability and effort element to factor in there.

However, the worst thing in beekeeping is struggling with mis matched boxes, overhangs and underhangs, gaps that let water in and bees and wasps ... by all means make stuff yourself but get your measurement right. Or sell your honey at a decent price and invest the profit in kit that suits you, ready made, when they are in the sales at the best price you can find.

 

[ericbeaumont]

dont know if it would be interchangeable with wooden national parts which i feel is an important feature

No, the 12-frame Abelo is not interchangeable with wood National nor the 11-frame Abelo poly.

Reason is that the 11 is bottom bee space and follows the format of nearly all UK National wood kit, and so is compatible with it. The 12 is top bee space, has a larger footprint and will cock up your hive management something awful.

i am sort of on a budget with it all, if i catch a swarm i can spend the money on a poly roof ,feeder and 14x12 if not i need to finish a 14x12 im making and a apex roof im copying my wbc

In your situation I would spend what you have on an 11-frame Abelo brood, super, feeder and roof. Use your machinery to make a BMH floor (based on JBM's plans here) and give up the idea of bodging boxes and roofs using different hive styles to save a bit here and there, because in the long run, when the hive is full of bees, the bitsa this and that hive will drive you nuts.

If you get bees in a brood box this week they may make you a super of honey on the main flow and if you mean to sell it, sell it well. By that I mean choose the sales outlet to get top price (some still flog good honey at boot fairs for £4 a pound). Find out local prices, aim higher and use the cash to buy more standard Abelo kit; you won't regret it.

 

[Rob H]

No, the 12-frame Abelo is not interchangeable with wood National nor the 11-frame Abelo poly.

Reason is that the 11 is bottom bee space and follows the format of nearly all UK National wood kit, and so is compatible with it. The 12 is top bee space, has a larger footprint and will cock up your hive management something awful.


In your situation I would spend what you have on an 11-frame Abelo brood, super, feeder and roof. Use your machinery to make a BMH floor (based on JBM's plans here) and give up the idea of bodging boxes and roofs using different hive styles to save a bit here and there, because in the long run, when the hive is full of bees, the bitsa this and that hive will drive you nuts.

If you get bees in a brood box this week they may make you a super of honey on the main flow and if you mean to sell it, sell it well. By that I mean choose the sales outlet to get top price (some still flog good honey at boot fairs for £4 a pound). Find out local prices, aim higher and use the cash to buy more standard Abelo kit; you won't regret it.

A liittle late to the party but..... I have Abelo 12 frame hives with 1 or 2 Abelo supers per hive. To keep costs down Ive also bought a load of "seconds" cedar national supers in the sales and constructed them as top bee space rather than bottom, they sit nicely on top of the poly ones but obviously without the rebate, these are my "extras" in case I get a decent harvest. Moving forwards for additional hives Ive bought a poly brood box and super per hive and made BMH/JBM floors and roofs out of PIR, also have spare broods for double boxing, demeree's etc. This works for me and gives me maximum insulation for the winter and keeps costs down to an acceptable limit although Im sure some will consider my approach akin to the work of the devil and over complicating things.