Urgent help failed newspaper combine

[Stitchwort]

[long story not included] we've tried to combine a queenless hive and a small colony with newspaper but opening up for a quick check after 3 days they had not gone through at all.

Tried to replace the newspaper with a bigger hole in it but now they seem to be fighting.

Is there anything we can do at this stage, please. (Please hold judgements til later, advice welcome. Thank you in advance.)

Thank you.

Edited to add we have smoked more now to confuse the smells.

 

[B+.]

Tried to replace the newspaper with a bigger hole in it but now they seem to be fighting.

Is there anything we can do at this stage. .

You could try spraying them with thick syrup. By the time they've cleaned themselves up, they shouldn't feel much like fighting (also- alternate any brood so they don't have an area to defend)

 

[Stitchwort]

Thank you - it's incredibly windy here at the moment, so spraying is probably a recipe for further disaster :-( and there is only a small amount of brood in one (the smaller, colony, which is on the bottom. Q- on top above the newspaper divide).

 

[Hivemaker.]

There is a big risk the queen has been balled, how long have the Q- colony been Q-.

 

[Stitchwort]

R

How long have the Q- colony been Q-.

We suspect actually they have been q- overwinter. Not seen queen or brood since (would have to check notes) about August.
Edited after checking notes; it looks like we lost queen in September; sealed queen cells, possibly emergency ones based on size, left 2 and one hatched and one disappeared by September but by this time we were in the middle of varroa treatment. So our observations suggest that never returned or never mated. Checked carefully for eggs so we do not think DLQ or laying workers.

 

[madasafish]

Newspaper is so last century..both in news distribution and in uniting.

Separate both colonies, remove newspaper. Using Airwick 6 in 1 Air Freshener (any smell) give lower colony a 5 second burst over the top of combs and the top one a 5 second burst over the bottom combs. Place together very promptly. Walk away.

The bees will buzz like mad and when they have regained their sense of smell they will have united.

Per Into The Lions Den.. I have used successfuly for years.

 

[Beefriendly]

Per Into The Lions Den.. I have used successfuly for years.

used it for years.

 

[nightshade]

Not that I've had to unite a colony yet but I struggle with the principal??

I've never used airfreshener in my own home so struggle with the idea around bees?

 

[nightshade]

Would an essential oil work?

 

[nightshade]

Or a bunch of herbs?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A bowl of pot pourri?

 

[madasafish]

Not that I've had to unite a colony yet but I struggle with the principal??

I've never used airfreshener in my own home so struggle with the idea around bees?

From my layman's understanding:
Bees detect other bees by scent. Air freshener (or very heavy smoking) overwhelms their scent recognition by temporarily destroying their scent recognition by overload. So they cannot recognise "foreign" bees by smell .. which would lead to fighting. By the time they have regained the smell sense, the two colonies are intermingled and they all smell the same....

 

[drex]

Air freshener is so easy, only needs a quick whiff. Do you put thymol or OA in your hives?

 

[nightshade]

I know what your saying drex....

Just another one to ponder!..

Lol Jenkins. ..maybe a cinnamon stick or two!!

 

[john t]

[long story not included] we've tried to combine a queenless hive and a small colony with newspaper but opening up for a quick check after 3 days they had not gone through at all.

Tried to replace the newspaper with a bigger hole in it but now they seem to be fighting.

Is there anything we can do at this stage, please. (Please hold judgements til later, advice welcome. Thank you in advance.)

Thank you.

Edited to add we have smoked more now to confuse the smells.

when you did the newspaper method , did you make a few cuts in the paper ?
i have never know this method to fail, obviously the bees need to be able to start chewing the paper, usually within 12 hrs you find the paper shredded at the hive entrance

 

[Anduril]

when you did the newspaper method , did you make a few cuts in the paper ?

When I have used the newspaper method, I have never made cuts in the paper and it has worked perfectly.

 

[MartinL]

Newspaper is so last century...

Strangely, I still depend on many things from the past centuries;

The internal combustion Engine,
Television,
The Airliner,
Telephone,
Light Bulb,
Piped Drinking water,
Sewage,
The Internet??????????????????

They still work,
sometimes better than intended.

 

[madasafish]

Strangely, I still depend on many things from the past centuries;




They still work,
sometimes better than intended.

So do I BUT that does not mean there are no better ways of doing things.. (Matchsticks anyone? )

 

[john t]

i have always made a few cuts in the paper to get the bees started, maybe some newspaper is tougher than others ?

as for using air freshener, its not something i have tried and most likely not something i would have to hand,or want to try
as some air fresheners can contain formaldehyde and other chemicals

 

[enrico]

Well I am an air freshener convert, you only need a minimal amount and it can't be any tougher then asking them to chew paper and print and spit it out. I would never miss anything else. Somquick and simple.
E