Uniting mismatched colonies

[MerryBee]

Hi All,

I have 2 colonies I want to unite (newspaper method).

Colony 1 is a strong colony which had queen removed on 25th April (nuc method of swarm control).
New queen laying since around 20th May, since when they have turned quite nasty.
2 days ago I found and removed the unmarked queen, which required an inspection with my thick pair of "emergency" gloves.
Brood on 9 frames, and 2 quite well filled supers.

Colony 2 is a small nuc, made up only 8 days ago (nuc method of swarm control).
Good queen, only 3 frames of bees (2 of BIAS, 1 of stores).

So lots of thoughts/questions.

1. Is it problematic to unite 2 colonies so mismatched in size?
2. Do I have to remove emergency queen cells from colony 1 before uniting - not a prospect I relish.
3. These 2 colonies are currently about 3-4 metres apart and facing in opposite directions.
Do I need to bring them next to each other before uniting?
4. Do I put colony 2 above the supers on colony 1, or does the presence of supers cause a problem?
5. Am I overthinking this?

Many thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi All,

I have 2 colonies I want to unite (newspaper method).

Colony 1 is a strong colony which had queen removed on 25th April (nuc method of swarm control).
New queen laying since around 20th May, since when they have turned quite nasty.
2 days ago I found and removed the unmarked queen, which required an inspection with my thick pair of "emergency" gloves.
Brood on 9 frames, and 2 quite well filled supers.

Colony 2 is a small nuc, made up only 8 days ago (nuc method of swarm control).
Good queen, only 3 frames of bees (2 of BIAS, 1 of stores).

So lots of thoughts/questions.

1. Is it problematic to unite 2 colonies so mismatched in size?
2. Do I have to remove emergency queen cells from colony 1 before uniting - not a prospect I relish.
3. These 2 colonies are currently about 3-4 metres apart and facing in opposite directions.
Do I need to bring them next to each other before uniting?
4. Do I put colony 2 above the supers on colony 1, or does the presence of supers cause a problem?
5. Am I overthinking this?

Many thanks.

1. No
2. yes, definitely - you should have united immediately on removing the queen, you now have to wait until they are hopelessly queenless which means IMHO at least two more visits.
3. No, I would get the nuc colony ready in a brood box and move them over on top of the Q- colony in the evening.
4. yes, put on top of the supers - newspaper, then QX then colony number 2

 

[enrico]

The only variation I would offer is large bb, paper, small BB, QE, paper, large supers. That has worked for me in the past ending up with a double BB where you know the queen is.
In this heat you need to check they don't cook though.
E

 

[MerryBee]

two more visits.

First visit at 6-7 days, second visit at 9-10 days ??

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The only variation I would offer is large bb, paper, small BB, QE, paper, large supers. That has worked for me in the past ending up with a double BB where you know the queen is.
In this heat you need to check they don't cook though.
E

I'm afraid I must disagree, paper over the supers which are over the large Brood box, QX, small brood box, done it many times and it's always worked, why faff around with trying to unite from two directions?

First visit at 6-7 days, second visit at 9-10 days ??

No, check again in 3 then again at day 7 just before doing the unite

 

[Swarm]

With the queenless colony on top, it doesn't matter how many supers are there.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

With the queenless colony on top, it doesn't matter how many supers are there.

It's the q+ colony that's going on top.

 

[Swarm]

Still makes no odds if there's an excluder involved with the paper.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Hi Merry, if you decide what you want to do I'll come and help with the nasty hive if you don't feel up to it!
N

 

[MerryBee]

I can now happily report that the uniting of the 2 colonies worked successfully.
I united last Sunday after removing all EQCs following advice given on this thread, and checked in again today to see how it had all gone.. The queen from the small colony has been accepted, and to my surprise, the temper of the combined colony has already improved. I have not experienced such a rapid change of temper before. I expected it to take several weeks.
A good result all round.

Many thanks to all who gave advice.

 

[jeff33]

Good skills, well done.

 

[enrico]

Update really helpful
E

 

[LeaBees]

1. No
2. yes, definitely - you should have united immediately on removing the queen, you now have to wait until they are hopelessly queenless which means IMHO at least two more visits.
3. No, I would get the nuc colony ready in a brood box and move them over on top of the Q- colony in the evening.
4. yes, put on top of the supers - newspaper, then QX then colony number 2

Hi
Question on this mismatched unite. If Q+ colony is below the supers (QX present) do you need a QX above the super? My instinct is no but would like to check.

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi
Question on this mismatched unite. If Q+ colony is below the supers (QX present) do you need a QX above the super? My instinct is no but would like to check.

Thanks

No you don't - as there's no queen up there

 

[North End Bees]

Question on this mismatched unite. If Q+ colony is below the supers (QX present) do you need a QX above the super? My instinct is no but would like to check.

I would anyway, just to hold the paper in place.
Otherwise any uneven edges on the bottom bars of the top box can rip the paper prematurely when assembling.

 

[Erichalfbee]

QX easier for me anyway
I prepare the colonies in the afternoon and move brood box over in the evening, newspaper already in place

 

[madasafish]

I just use air freshener. Much easier. No faffing about. Two squirts and job is done.