UK Economy!!!

[madasafish]

What have we learned in 2,064 years?

"evidently nothing.....

I don't know.. panem et circenses works very well Modern equivalent of "Benefits ,TV and football"...

 

[psafloyd]

Ok here's an idea.
We take all the profits and bonuses from the banks and emplyees and pay off this countries deficit.
After all, it was there greed that put us where we are today !!!

Brian

No, it was poor regulation that allowed them to do this.

Howeve, it didn't stop tens of thousands, even millions of people borrowing money they couldn't afford, some of them even LYING to get more 'cheap' money.

Blaming the bankers appears popular, and I'm no apologist for them, particularly now we own many of them, but it is only part of the picture.

 

[psafloyd]

I think you need to establish some facts first. The Bank bonuses are insufficient on their own (£25- £35 billion gross)to meet our annual deficit (£140 billion plus) - let alone pay off the accumulated debt built up by years of overspending... (£800 billion plus).

 

[psafloyd]

As I've already mentioned, it wasn't only the banks. The UK has lived beyond its means for 25 years once the Tories deregulated the credit market and thern Labour built their economic model on overspending on personal debt in the high street.

The real reaon it went so wrong was the regulators didn't have a clue they had created a monster.

 

[psafloyd]

NO! It was the greed of the people taking out the loans, credit cards and mortgages that they could not afford.

Quite right.

 

[psafloyd]

Perhaps if the previous government had not messed with the RPI and CPI, or recruited huge numbers into the state (clearly to fudge unemployment figures) then things may not be as bad. This would have affected inflation rates and interest rates etc, very multi-faceted. /QUOTE]

Although I largely agree, what was the big problem caused the previous government between RPI and CPI?

 

[psafloyd]

"For goodness sake, what is wrong with people earning money and doing well for themselves."

Nothing what so ever, but when these people make wreckless choices to make that money, which then takes everyone in the country, to pay for those poor choices, in one form or another for some years to come.

Poor regulation followed by poor political decisions, ever since Northern Rock. I have said from the start we should leave a few rotting carcases of these banks lying around as an example for the rewards of poor governance.

After all, we would have had to bail out most depositors under the FSCS, though those with more than £35k (about £32500 in reality) would have lost more money.

 

[psafloyd]

Agreed. Lets jail a few bankers. Their defence will be : what we did was legal (true) and the bank regulators knew what we were doing (true). So it's not our fault.

Under Human Rights Legislation, they would win.

No, they're not guilty in any case, madasafish, so you can forget your rant about the Human Rights Act.

Anyone guilty of fraud should and would have been prosecuted as it would have been easy for the government to make hay.

However, the regulator just didn't get it and dropped the ball most spectacularly. Not that Hector Sants will agree with that analysis.

 

[Heather]

Now I see why some would like Yorkshire to become an independant country... like Iceland ?

Not just Yorkshire- I think you will find we all think the same!!!

Stop bonuses -- I nursed for 30 years - never has a bonus
Reduce immigration- tell EU to stuff their laws that we HAVE to accept all these people from the east of Europe, till our indigenous have jobs.
No unemployment benefit if they have refused to do a job offered that they are clearly fit to do.

 

[Storm™]

No unemployment benefit if they have refused to do a job offered that they are clearly fit to do.

I was with you until this point. Its an easy statement to make and agree with. The reality is this:

Turn up at job centre -
I cannot work because of this report from my Dr.
JC: Where is your Dr's certificate saying unfit to work
I dont have one because I have all these medical reports still ongoing investigations. The Dr is awaiting his copies from the hospital. I have signed the release but he as yet has not received them. But I brought my copies in, all 8 of them from the leading consultants in the south west saying about my medical condition.

JC manager reads through them - 45 minutes later - well there is nothing here that I can see that implies you're unfit to work.

Are you medically trained in any respect.

JC - No.

So how can you say that?

JC - the rules are the rules. . .

Your quite fat for a lady, is it hard to get a dress that actually fits both arse cheeks at once.

JC - I think we are done here

Agreed, good day.

 

[mbc]

Poor regulation followed by poor political decisions, ever since Northern Rock. I have said from the start we should leave a few rotting carcases of these banks lying around as an example for the rewards of poor governance.

After all, we would have had to bail out most depositors under the FSCS, though those with more than £35k (about £32500 in reality) would have lost more money.

People on this thread are having a go at poor immigrants, jobless and/or people stuck in dept when the bailout was designed to help those with over 35k in deposits and the bankers themselves.
The bailout was so large it could have given every man, woman and child in the country several thousand pounds in their pocket to spend (and help the economy recover) or to pay off debts, buy beehives etc. whatever .
I'd have thought fans of the social superorganisms that are bees would have a keener sense of social justice than to put the blame on people struggling at the bottom of our society.

 

[tonybloke]

People on this thread are having a go at poor immigrants, jobless and/or people stuck in dept when the bailout was designed to help those with over 35k in deposits and the bankers themselves.
The bailout was so large it could have given every man, woman and child in the country several thousand pounds in their pocket to spend (and help the economy recover) or to pay off debts, buy beehives etc. whatever .
I'd have thought fans of the social superorganisms that are bees would have a keener sense of social justice than to put the blame on people struggling at the bottom of our society.

Hear Hear!!

 

[Nomadickarl]

Stop..carry on.

In relation to the figure fudging by government in relation to CPI and RPI, (has anyone noticed that pensions etc have now, courtesy of our present government, been linked to CPI rather than RPI - saves them a fortune?) lets take a very simplistic view.

House prices boomed, was this included in the governement/BOE measure of inflation, no it wasn't. It it had been then the government/BOE would have seen inflation running away. What would they have done, well the only thing they can do and that is to raise interest rates. This may have reduced house price growth to a more sustainable levels. People would have borrowed less (interest repayments would have controlled the amount people can afford to borrow) and personal debt would not be so much of an issue. Clearly this is second guessing (as are most things to do with economics) and there are many other issues here too. But personal debt is a huge problem, and if interest rates go up to quickly then we will see far worse than we are seeing now. I don't see savers being made homeless, but those with big mortgages could be. Ok, they should not have stretched themselves so thinly and they really do only have themselves to blame (4 or 5 times your salary is crazy) - NO ONE FORCED YOU TO SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE. The 3x your salary guide has been in place for a long time and with good reason.

Lets be clear people borrowed beyond their means (inc government), we could dig deeper and ask why? Is the 'I want it now' culture to blame?, which appears rampant in our society. So rather than save and spend people just spend. But again, lets not blame the banks for societies present ills. WE borrowed too much. The banks just lend...and without guns pointing at you.

Why people have drifted off to rant about immigration is beyond me. You are all immigrants, this is an Island. Well it has been since the English Channel flooded and split us from France. You are probably a mix of Celt, Saxon, Dane, Roman (which encompasses most of Europe, North Africa and the near East), Gaul etc. Need I go on? It is easy to confuse issues. It appears that most people do not object to immigration per se, just the scale of it (too much too fast). If we have Brisitsh citizens that are unemployed/under employed then there are often reasons, disability, too lucrative welfare system (and it is) and a lack of motivation. The last 13 years have told a whole generation that you can't pass wind without the government helping so a whole generation expect to be woken up with a fresh cup of tea, driven to a well paid job (obviously after 9.30 a.m) and then driven home again . This is what happens when you ask the state to provide and micromanage everything). Lets not forget that a large number of our NEETS (Not in Employment, Education or Training) have a lack of skills that make suitable for the modern work environment i.e. transferable.

Hows about that for a Tome and a half?

 

[psafloyd]

People on this thread are having a go at poor immigrants, jobless and/or people stuck in dept when the bailout was designed to help those with over 35k in deposits and the bankers themselves.
The bailout was so large it could have given every man, woman and child in the country several thousand pounds in their pocket to spend (and help the economy recover) or to pay off debts, buy beehives etc. whatever .
I'd have thought fans of the social superorganisms that are bees would have a keener sense of social justice than to put the blame on people struggling at the bottom of our society.

Not sure if you are actually referring to my thread, mbc, but what I am saying is that we would have spent a great deal of money protecting the vast majority of deposit holders, which I agree with.
As far as I am concerned, anyone with more than £35k in a single bank account should have lost their money above the threshold, because that is what that safety net was there for and the rules were perfectly clear. This would have protected 90-something % of people with deposits.
Then instead of maintaining a number of banks that clearly failed to self-regulate or be regulated, they should have been wound up as a lesson to unbridled stupidity.

 

[psafloyd]

In relation to the figure fudging by government in relation to CPI and RPI, (has anyone noticed that pensions etc have now, courtesy of our present government, been linked to CPI rather than RPI - saves them a fortune?) lets take a very simplistic view.
Hows about that for a Tome and a half?

Karl, the unions were complaining about public sector pay not going up last year, but that was because it was factored on RPI and that measure had fallen so low due to the lack of a housing market.

 

[Nomadickarl]

Unions

I won't digress too much into the union take on things. Union support for an individual is a good thing. Unions bringing the country to a halt or hijacking other protests (BA strike being an example - did anyone else see all the SWP newspapers being banded arounds when the BA office was 'stormed'?) is something I will never support. A key reason for the collapse of UK manufacturing was the unionisation of the workforce. Employers got fed up with it and went elsewhere. Has anyone ever come across an poor union leader? Bob Crow(e), Arthur Scargill, need I go on.

 

[psafloyd]

A key reason for the collapse of UK manufacturing was the unionisation of the workforce.

That is a nonsense. They would have sought cheaper labour as the market developed in any case, just as the Chinese are doing in Africa today.

Employers got fed up with it and went elsewhere. Has anyone ever come across an poor union leader? Bob Crow(e), Arthur Scargill, need I go on.

I think you should. Do you know Bob Crow? Do you know how much he earns? Less than many local authority chief executives, who do nothing. But people don't complain enough about them, despite paying their wages.

 

[Nellie]

Crowe might be a bit of an *****, but he's not on the take and his union wont be paying him a £2million bonus for getting all the members sacked before he goes off to head to the unicorn herders union.

[edit]

Honestly. i d i o t does not need to be censored.

 

[Hombre]

Recommend preview and work around.