Two types of orientation.

[Curly green finger's]

Hi after reading books and my own experience.. Plus questions asked by the mentorees who are teens.

Mass orientation .
Is when a queen takes her nuptial fliet and the colony will orientate when she leaves the hive..
These are mainly older worker bees.
As we know 20 or so older workers will follow the Queen to where she is to be mated.

Orientation.
IS when young bees leave the hive in preparation for becoming foraging bees.

Both obviously have an impact on the honey flows and slow down the then foraging ability of a colony, if only for a short time.

If I've got any of the above wrong can you forward your thoughts pls.

Many thanks

Mark.

 

[pargyle]

Have you been watching You-tube videos from the USA ?

Orientation flghts are just that ... orientation flights as bees scope out their surroundings - not necessarily always young bees ... if you move a hive then bees will orientate to get a fix before they set off.

A queen who is going on her maiden flight may generate an entourage as she sets off but they usually settle back into the hive fairly quickly.

Neither have any noticeable effect on foraging.

I've never heard of a queen on her mating flight being accompaned by workers but I'm ready to be corrected .. you sometimes see drones following her for a while but I suspect that the queen will avoid mating with her offspring if possible as the genetics would not be helpful. Drones are pretty mobile and it is possible that a few drones from other colonies may follow a vrigin.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Have you been watching You-tube videos from the USA ?

Orientation flghts are just that ... orientation flights as bees scope out their surroundings - not necessarily always young bees ... if you move a hive then bees will orientate to get a fix before they set off.

A queen who is going on her maiden flight may generate an entourage as she sets off but they usually settle back into the hive fairly quickly.

Neither have any noticeable effect on foraging.

I've never heard of a queen on her mating flight being accompaned by workers but I'm ready to be corrected .. you sometimes see drones following her for a while but I suspect that the queen will avoid mating with her offspring if possible as the genetics would not be helpful. Drones are pretty mobile and it is possible that a few drones from other colonies may follow a vrigin.

No I don't watch American beeks.
I've seen a queen this season take her maiden fliet and alot of bee's came out of the hive almost swarm like but this happened on four occasions.
Biology books I've been reading one in perticular ' buzz about bees' Jurgen tautz

Why wouldn't foraging be interrupted when what I saw happened??
Was it not a maiden fliet? It definitely wasn't a swarming colony unless I missed qcs.. But I defo didn't on this occasion.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Have you been watching You-tube videos from the USA ?

Orientation flghts are just that ... orientation flights as bees scope out their surroundings - not necessarily always young bees ... if you move a hive then bees will orientate to get a fix before they set off.

A queen who is going on her maiden flight may generate an entourage as she sets off but they usually settle back into the hive fairly quickly.

Neither have any noticeable effect on foraging.

I've never heard of a queen on her mating flight being accompaned by workers but I'm ready to be corrected .. you sometimes see drones following her for a while but I suspect that the queen will avoid mating with her offspring if possible as the genetics would not be helpful. Drones are pretty mobile and it is possible that a few drones from other colonies may follow a vrigin.

although there has been more than one reference (don't ask me for the source) that say the queen will be accompanied by a small entourage to ensure her safety.
So number one does sound like something prattled off on yootoob, as for the second, well....
Young bees will orientate, you see them often outside the hive, but as to if it's just before they take up foraging duties, I would uestion that. Do they never feel the urge for a dump until they are promoted?
Worker bees do take a quick orientation round every day when they first go out to ensure they know nothing's changed, just after the look up and down at the entrance to reset their brain to the gravitational pull (Prof. Robert Pickard) and after a long confinement (such as bad weather or winter layoff) they re orientate properly, that's why it's pretty easy to rearrange an apiary in the winter without faffing around moving hives three miles.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've seen a queen this season take her maiden fliet and alot of bee's came out of the hive almost swarm like but this happened on four occasions.

Not an orientation flight, for want of a better word, it was a 'mating swarm' seen it a few times when, instead of a few outriders, the whole hive follows the queen out, realise their mistake and then sheepishly hang around for a while before going back to the hive. (cue the usual blather from a certain corner at this)
I have never heard or read about orientation flights stopping foraging.

 

[pargyle]

Not an orientation flight, for want of a better word, it was a 'mating swarm' seen it a few times when, instead of a few outriders, the whole hive follows the queen out, realise their mistake and then sheepishly hang around for a while before going back to the hive. (cue the usual blather from a certain corner at this)
I have never heard or read about orientation flights stopping foraging.

Precisely ...

 

[Michael ECB's]

I dont know about "Mass Orientation" ?
Have never been fortunate enough to see a virgin queen leave on her mating flight...
Have seen swarms coming in but never out..... (Dont spend enough time in apiary)
However!
Orientation flights.....
That I see a lot of.... In my neck of the woods this usually takes place between 12pm and 2 pm....... Bees go "walk about" ..... Fly about???
On a double brood this could look like swarming..... Especially on a hot day when they beard a bit....

I wonder if this Mid Day orientation flight is the same around the world?
Mid day - hottest time of the day - sun at its highest?
Would be interesting to know....

 

[Curly green finger's]

Not an orientation flight, for want of a better word, it was a 'mating swarm' seen it a few times when, instead of a few outriders, the whole hive follows the queen out, realise their mistake and then sheepishly hang around for a while before going back to the hive. (cue the usual blather from a certain corner at this)
I have never heard or read about orientation flights stopping foraging.

So it was a Mating swarm that's perfectly understandable.
A Mating swarm would interrupt foraging though, perhaps I've read it wrong.. As to the orientation or mass orientation?? Interrupting foraging.

I observed the Queen leaving and they followed her for about 30 metres then headed back to the hive.
When this Mating swarm happened the bees bearded the front of the hive for quite a while untill the Queen returned.
I cant put a time frame on it but I sat watching from 5 metres away.

 

[user 819]

I once witnessed a localised DCA at one of my old apiary locations in a village, I initially though a swarm was issuing. Some 20 - 30mins later another rather loud sound and many 10's of drones noisily making there way back in to the colonies, only ever witnessed this one time.

 

[pargyle]

I dont know about "Mass Orientation" ?
Have never been fortunate enough to see a virgin queen leave on her mating flight...
Have seen swarms coming in but never out..... (Dont spend enough time in apiary)
However!
Orientation flights.....
That I see a lot of.... In my neck of the woods this usually takes place between 12pm and 2 pm....... Bees go "walk about" ..... Fly about???
On a double brood this could look like swarming..... Especially on a hot day when they beard a bit....

I wonder if this Mid Day orientation flight is the same around the world?
Mid day - hottest time of the day - sun at its highest?
Would be interesting to know....

Poo time ...or the warmest time of the day is usually when the sun is at the highest point and that's often when you see the most foragers out of the hive .. I certainly would never describe this as an orchestrated happening ... and yes as JBM said .. bees will do a couple of circuits and bumps when they come out for the first time on that day to re-set thier compasses so, at peak periods, it could be mistaken or misread for a mass event.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Oriantating bees Italian mongrels June 2020
This happened about 12 ish

 

[pargyle]

Oops ...

 

[Curly green finger's]

This was one of our mentorees hives also a suspected Mating swarm.

 

[pargyle]

I think you are starting to overthink things ... what little time a mating swarm is in the air will not make a blind bit of difference to the foraging ...

I thought this was something that your mentorees had asked you ? I'd direct them towards more relevant aspects of beekeeping rather than dwell on non-events.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mating swarm
This lot hung about in a clump in an adjacent tree then came back to the hive
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ckjzizd209bbhcr/Video 15-06-2020, 21 43 36.mov?dl=0
You can see the queen at 1.30 ish.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I wonder if this Mid Day orientation flight is the same around the world?

although there may be more than one, Usually happens mid/late mornings with us

 

[pargyle]

View attachment 23370View attachment 23369

This was one of our mentorees hives also a suspected Mating swarm.

......Or the aftermath of mass orientation ?

 

[Curly green finger's]

......Or the aftermath of mass orientation ?

Ok, so I got sent the pictures above and a small video which I seem to of deleted.
What I observed this summer and what got described by the teens to me was both the same things happening.
I hope this explains it and I'm not over thinking it, this lead me to try and find out more..
It looks like the conclusion is a Mating swarm.
Is it a colony being rather over pretective of there virgin when she's going out to look for the lads?
The video I've posted from June was just orientation which only lasted for almost half an hour, and completely different.

 

[pargyle]

Ok, so I got sent the pictures above and a small video which I seem to of deleted.
What I observed this summer and what got described by the teens to me was both the same things happening.
I hope this explains it and I'm not over thinking it, this lead me to try and find out more..
It looks like the conclusion is a Mating swarm.
Is it a colony being rather over pretective of there virgin when she's going out to look for the lads?

No ... nothing to do with protection ... they follow the queens pheremones (virtually everything in a colony is dependent upon pheremones and the queen's pheremones are the omnipresent signature of the colony) ...they possibly think it's time to swarm and then realise that it's not and they settle back down.

 

[Curly green finger's]

No ... nothing to do with protection ... they follow the queens pheremones (virtually everything in a colony is dependent upon pheremones and the queen's pheremones are the omnipresent signature of the colony) ...they possibly think it's time to swarm and then realise that it's not and they settle back down.

I should of come on here and asked and got a respectable answer.
I can now relay my answer to the noobs.
Thanks Philip.