Two sisters, such different colours!?

[Robbo8916]

Hello,

My bees are generally fairly light in colour. I lost my queen and have raised and got mated two new queens who are now both laying well in their separate colonies.

I just wondered what the reason could be for such a massive colour difference between them?

The 'main hive' queen is a beautiful golden colour, much like her mother was. However the nuc queen is almost black in comparison. Is it purely luck of the draw or does one have more or less of a certain strain do you think?

Pics attached

 

[sugarbush]

They have different fathers so 50% of their genetic makeup is different.

 

[For want of a better word]

I notice a lot of colour variation in the Mediterranean type of non native bees... providing their temper is good and they produce some honey I should not worry too much.

Yeghes da

 

[MerryBee]

They have different fathers so 50% of their genetic makeup is different.

Or put another way, full sisters share 50% of their genes; half sisters only share 25% of their genes.

So not surprising that they can be very different

 

[tonel]

Just to go slightly OT - I understand that the workers can have colour variation due to the fact that they have different fathers. But since drones have no father (all genes from mother?) shouldn't all the drones be exactly the same colour as the queen? (this is assuming they are all her sons and haven't drifted in from elsewhere). Reason I ask is due to seeing dark drones in a hive with a fairly light/yellow queen.

Have been reading up on bee genetics but am finding it gives me a headache, and this question has been on my mind for a while!

 

[Swarm]

Just to go slightly OT - I understand that the workers can have colour variation due to the fact that they have different fathers. But since drones have no father (all genes from mother?) shouldn't all the drones be exactly the same colour as the queen? (this is assuming they are all her sons and haven't drifted in from elsewhere). Reason I ask is due to seeing dark drones in a hive with a fairly light/yellow queen.

Have been reading up on bee genetics but am finding it gives me a headache, and this question has been on my mind for a while!

Well, what makes you think they are all your drones?

 

[Zante]

Just to go slightly OT - I understand that the workers can have colour variation due to the fact that they have different fathers. But since drones have no father (all genes from mother?) shouldn't all the drones be exactly the same colour as the queen? (this is assuming they are all her sons and haven't drifted in from elsewhere). Reason I ask is due to seeing dark drones in a hive with a fairly light/yellow queen.

Have been reading up on bee genetics but am finding it gives me a headache, and this question has been on my mind for a while!

I don't know how relevant it mat be, but remember the first cloned cat?
It was called copy cat and it was (well... is) a genetic clone of its mother.

Look at them together:

So things are not as straightforward as they may seem...

 

[MerryBee]

Just to go slightly OT - I understand that the workers can have colour variation due to the fact that they have different fathers. But since drones have no father (all genes from mother?) shouldn't all the drones be exactly the same colour as the queen? (this is assuming they are all her sons and haven't drifted in from elsewhere). Reason I ask is due to seeing dark drones in a hive with a fairly light/yellow queen.

Have been reading up on bee genetics but am finding it gives me a headache, and this question has been on my mind for a while!

A female bee (queen or worker) has 16 PAIRS of chromosomes. An egg has 1 chromosome from each pair, chosen at random, so 16 single chromosomes, and this is all the chromosomes that a drone gets, having no father. But you have to remember that the 2 chromosomes in each pair are not identical. So each drone will get a different random selection from his mothers pairs of chromosomes, so the drones will not be identical.

Before trying to understand bee genetics which is unusual in the animal (or plant) kingdom, I suggest you read up on "standard" genetics, and get to grips with concepts like dominant and recessive genes, and the difference between a genotype and a phenotype. Then I think the bee genetics will fall into place quite easily.
I cant recommend a particular book, but maybe something aimed at GCSE or A level biology students?

(If it explains about Gregor Mendel and his round and wrinkled peas, its probably about the right level)

 

[MerryBee]

Well, what makes you think they are all your drones?

Yes, that too. Not all the drones in your hive will be sons of that hives queen.

 

[tonel]

Thanks for all the replies - I was thinking hypothetically regarding the drones in the hive all being the sons of the resident queen (I understand drones drift from hive to hive etc). Have to admit I think genetics in general is way above my level, far too complex for me! As mentioned, depending on which chromosomes are passed on it's basically a random mix - have done a little grafting and queen rearing, it's interesting to see how a batch of queens grafted from a single mother can vary (although unlike drones they do have two parents!)