Treatment Free

[JEP]

You can't prevent a decent colony from swarming during a nectar flow if you only nadir it. It can work OK with a very gradual flow if the broodnest has time to move down. But what usually happens is the bees store some nectar below the broodnest preventing it from moving down. This then leads to congestion and swarming as well as a vastly reduced crop. Nothing wrong with adding space below the broodnest though as long as you super as well.

 

[B+.]

Following that line of thinking a little - bees build downwards - so why on earth do most conventional keepers add supers, rather than follow bees lead and logic and nadir ?

Sorry but I can't answer that.
Beekeepers do things for strange reasons, I suppose.
My point was that a solid floor below the colony is a human invention. An OMF mirrors nature more closely.

 

[Hivemaker.]

An OMF mirrors nature more closely.

I would say a solid floor is nearer to natural, in a tree nest the bees still have a solid floor, how deep depends on each individual tree, to mimic an open mesh floor the tree would need to be suspended from a sky hook with no roots or anything below the bee nest which is in it, an air floating tree.

 

[B+.]

There are places trying to sell large numbers of queens at a reasonable price, 25 euros each, although these queens are f1's from resistant breeders, 500 euros, and even those only lasted two years before collapsing in a heavy busy commercial setting.

ITLD has had some F2s from one of my queens about as far north as anyone is likely to keep bees. They're holding their own against other commercial lines.

 

[Hivemaker.]

They're holding their own against other commercial lines.

...and is he not treating them?

Not quite as far north as anyone is likely to keep bees, there are beekeepers in the Orkney islands.
I've also sent several up as far as Thurso over the last five years .

 

[Finman]

ITLD has had some F2s from one of my queens about as far north as anyone is likely to keep bees. They're holding their own against other commercial lines.

F2 means that the colony has only 25% out of original genes. 75% is something else.

 

[Beefriendly]

An OMF mirrors nature more closely.

Not in a tree, perhaps if it was a colony who built their nest in a cave roof.

 

[Finman]

as far north as anyone is likely to keep bees.

It is then Ultima Thule.

 

[Beefriendly]

It is then Ultima Thule.

I think you were being ignored .....Scotland is as far north as anyone in the midlands of the UK can envisage.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

An OMF mirrors nature more closely.

I know of quite a few feral colonies here and saw quite a few out in Africa. Only one is in a tree which you could say imitated an OMF ( entrance hole up high, bottom of the tree completely rotted out and open down to ground level so you can look up and see the comb - at one of my apiaries funnily enough) all the others have what amounts to a solid floor.

 

[B+.]

F2 means that the colony has only 25% out of original genes. 75% is something else.

Agreed. I am not going to attempt to defend them though.
ITLD asked for samples of good stock for him to evaluate under his conditions. Instead of merely talking about how good my stock is, I put my money where my mouth is and sent him some to test.
From what I hear, they're doing ok

 

[B+.]

I would say a solid floor is nearer to natural, in a tree nest the bees still have a solid floor, how deep depends on each individual tree, to mimic an open mesh floor the tree would need to be suspended from a sky hook with no roots or anything below the bee nest which is in it, an air floating tree.

Exactly, the depth under the combs allows pests/debris to fall away and have no impact on the colony. A solid floor ~ an inch under a comb provides more opportunity for detritus to affect the colony than an OMF where it falls to the ground IMO

 

[domino]

Exactly, the depth under the combs allows pests/debris to fall away and have no impact on the colony. A solid floor ~ an inch under a comb provides more opportunity for detritus to affect the colony than an OMF where it falls to the ground IMO

Are there any studies that show the difference? I'm toying with going to solids, just because they have fewer parts - yes I'm that lazy.

 

[Hivemaker.]

A solid floor ~ an inch under a comb provides more opportunity for detritus to affect the colony than an OMF where it falls to the ground IMO

Never noticed any detritus, the bees keep the solid floors really clean, but maybe some detritus would actually be beneficial, like some top bar hive owners are adding.

 

[B+.]

Are there any studies that show the difference? I'm toying with going to solids, just because they have fewer parts - yes I'm that lazy.

I don't think studies would help here.
Look at the floor under a microscope and you'll see a whole world that most people aren't aware of.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Look at the floor under a microscope and you'll see a whole world that most people aren't aware of.

Ha ha, speak with Michael Bush and all those in the natural beekeeping world, a whole host of essential micro organisms that bees have developed alongside over the millennia.

 

[Beefriendly]

Are there any studies that show the difference? I'm toying with going to solids, just because they have fewer parts - yes I'm that lazy.

My own experience of solids is good....most remove all debris some don't. You don't want the don'ts...
By solids, for me, I mean Abelo trays and Paynes corex in. Not ideal as in mild winters you get wax moths in the inserts.

 

[B+.]

Ha ha, speak with Michael Bush and all those in the natural beekeeping world, a whole host of essential micro organisms that bees have developed alongside over the millennia.

It's true. I've seen things on a sticky insert that would give you nightmares! I'm sure you've seen them too?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I'm sure you've seen them too?

Of course I have.

 

[Beefriendly]

It's true. I've seen things on a sticky insert that would give you nightmares! I'm sure you've seen them too?

I've seen nothing to give nightmares...please elaborate on what you have seen on a sticky insert that scares you.