Treatment Free

[1amanda1]

Hi Fred,

"My opinion is; 'Treatment Free' beekeepers are like farmers with poor fences"

Why?

Amanda

 

[captain666]

<Why>

Cross contamination of livestock.

Fred.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Amanda.

My opinion is; 'Treatment Free' beekeepers are like farmers with poor fences.

Yes, beekeepers will disagree, yet they both can be right, just different approaches.

Fred.

Precisely the sort of disparaging comments we who are TF get from people with closed minds and a copy of Yates stuck in their belt or stuck somewhere. If you have nothing constructive to add to a thread don't feel obliged to comment .. everyone else has managed quite nicely to be understanding even if not in agreement. Best head off over to the BBKA website where your view may be found acceptable.

 

[pargyle]

I have no problems with beekeepers going TF.

I was, however, nearly wiped out in 2015 by my bees robbing hives abandonned at the local National Trust Gardens 0.25 miles away. The beekeeper apparently believed in no inspections, had AFB at his home hives, infected the NT hives and just left them to die.. I lost 6 out of 7 hives to AFB as a result.. Robbing in October - November 2014 found in mine March next year.

Never had AFB since . Not an experience I wish to recall..

Based on that and other contact with local "natural" beekeepers who do not inspect, I am sceptical of the ability of new beekeepers to succeed in that route without a lot of skilled help...

Yes ... totally agree. There are probably a lot more bad beekeepers who don't look after their stock properly than there are TF. An experience like yours (and I remember the occasion) is horrendous and one that all of us never hope to experience. It's irresponsible to allow brood diseases to go un-noticed and in the sure knowledge that they will spread. No inspections is not treatment free - it's just plain bad beekeeping.

 

[captain666]

pargyle.

Nothing disparaging about my short comment but I can see I hit a nerve with you because you're another who doesn't care about nearby beekeepers.

Now, who are you to tell anyone to leave this forum?

Fred.

 

[pargyle]

pargyle.

Nothing disparaging about my short comment but I can see I hit a nerve with you because you're another who doesn't care about nearby beekeepers.

Now, who are you to tell anyone to leave this forum?

Fred.

Well what's this line if it is not disparaging "TF beekeepers are like farmers with poor fences ". ?

I didn't tell you to leave ... I said your views may be more acceptable over there in the dry wood ...

and then you follow it up with another comment that is both untrue and dispararaging ... "you're another who doesn't care about nearby beekeepers."

 

[captain666]

pargyle.

You say you didn't tell me to leave, yet you said < Best head off over to the BBKA website where your view may be found acceptable. >

So you say you treat if you find the need, so help me out here. This thread is about 'Treatment Free' beekeeping. Are you suggesting some treatment is acceptable for you to remain in this group?

That's like saying a vegan can have an odd sausage.

BTW; don't slag Yates until you have studied it. Best always to have an 'informed' opinion.

Fred.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

About time people wound their neck in a bit I think. Let's not see a rather civil and informed discussion turn into a dogpile eh?

 

[captain666]

At times it's like 'Whac-A-Mole' around here.

Thankfully so far I have only seen two with mallets.

Fred.

 

[beeno]

I thought the discovery that the Swindon bees were essentially inoculated from the A strain of DWV by so-called superinfection exclusion of the B strain very interesting.

Not sure it has a practical application but it did appear to contribute to fewer colony losses.

He would not disclose his winter losses in a talk he gave some years ago. I took that as a bad omen.

 

[fiat500bee]

In the short time I've been beekeeping I've seen a definite inference from postings on many Facebook groups that some sort of treatment for verroa is inevitable. So much so that I think many new beekeepers just open a packet of "something" at a certain time of year, leave it for a while and then follow up with another packet of "something". The key thing that some of them will be missing out is knowing how bad their problem was (if indeed they had a problem!), how much treatment they should have used and what was the outcome of the treatment.

As a consequence it seems a good idea to me to closely monitor for pests and diseases with the intention to use as little chemical treatment as is necessary to eliminate a problem. The gold standard would be to manage without treatment. If you can keep problems to a tolerable minimum without treatment and your neighbour needs chemicals to achieve the same; who is the better beekeeper?

 

[bingevader]

<Why>

Cross contamination of livestock.

Fred.

Same chap as the initial two vids, his arguement is quite compelling. Your bees are statistically more likely to catch varroa from treaters rather than non treaters:

 

[captain666]

There's more to cross contamination than varroa, which I have to for treat anyway.

Fred,

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think many new beekeepers just open a packet of "something" at a certain time of year, leave it for a while and then follow up with another packet of "something".

Unfortunately, in this country organised beekeeping has evolved into groups that repeat thing cut and pasted/plagiarised from older publications parrot fashion without thought or questioning its validity or that things have sometimes moved on, pass that on to the next generation who repeat same mantra parrot fashion......., ad infinitum
Learners aren't taught to think but to do by rotewhat has 'always' been 'correct' at one time or other. Winning badges and being awarded certificates is often more important than good beekeeping.
even with great beemasters such as Digges, Manley and Snelgrove, albeit their books should still be 'must reads' you will find some items that should be firmly set in the archives.
I have witnessed massive differences in the quality of beginners classes, sometimes in associations only miles apart. with myths and old wives tales being treated as well documented facts.
So is it a wonder that people treat their colonies by rote?
(I'm not a non treater by the way!)

 

[pargyle]

About time people wound their neck in a bit I think. Let's not see a rather civil and informed discussion turn into a dogpile eh?

Unfortunatelv... as a result of one person with an extreme and unrelenting view and a clear desire to turn what was a reasonable and reasoned thread into something else ... it would appear to have already got there. I can't be bothered continuing, as in the past, the bigots come out of the woodwork and make for unpleasantness. I think I'm going to start a thread on top insulation and see what other bigotry is available from out 'new' members. I have a long memory ....

 

[captain666]

Aw! don't do that.

Start a thread on 'warm way' versus 'cold way' instead.

Fred.

 

[captain666]

Anyone wish their dentist didn't have a few certificates?

 

[pargyle]

Aw! don't do that.

Start a thread on 'warm way' versus 'cold way' instead.

Fred.

I think we could start here: Perhaps at Post #6 ?

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/hive-insulation-and-ventilation.14225/

 

[captain666]

Try a bit of levity. You'll find it enjoyable, entertain the rest of us and ease what ail's you.

Fred.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Try a bit of levity. You'll find it enjoyable, entertain the rest of us and ease what ail's you.

Fred.

That’s not what this thread us about.
it’s not about some sort of one upmanship
it’s easy enough to just close it