Transferring a 6 frame poly nuc to a top bar hive.

[Curly green finger's]

Hi, I'm after some advice on how I could transfer a maisemore poly 6 frame nuc to a top bar hive, something I've never done.
May need to do in the spring.

Thanks as always.

 

[madasafish]

Most effective is chop and crop each frame to fit the inverted V shape of a TBH and attach the top bar to the underside of the TBH topbar with cable ties.

Did that in 2010. Took 30 minutes as I thought through the process, laid out tools and equipment on a box.

Or you could do a shook swarm and lose all brood - NOPE.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Most effective is chop and crop each frame to fit the inverted V shape of a TBH and attach the top bar to the underside of the TBH topbar with cable ties.

Did that in 2010. Took 30 minutes as I thought through the process, laid out tools and equipment on a box.

Or you could do a shook swarm and lose all brood - NOPE.

Is there a nuc that uses top bar hive frames or could I modify one of my nucs.
Is this what your saying in your first paragraph.
Or are you saying to cut the frames down while brood is present.

I did think that I could of made a package of bee's up after isolating the queen donate the brood to another colony or two.
And then transfer queen and bees to top bar hive.

I want to do it in a way that's not going to be stressful and work.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is there a nuc that uses top bar hive frames or could I modify one of my nucs.
Is this what your saying in your first paragraph.
Or are you saying to cut the frames down while brood is present.

I did think that I could of made a package of bee's up after isolating the queen donate the brood to another colony or two.
And then transfer queen and bees to top bar hive.

I want to do it in a way that's not going to be stressful and work.

Shake the bees straight into the top bar and donate the brood. Feed.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Shake the bees straight into the top bar and donate the brood. Feed.

Isolate queen in a cage?
That sounds simple enough thanks dani..
Im wondering how much to charge now.
It will be a package of bee's and queen.
The top bar hive is new so there will be no drawn comb it might be worth making a few frames up with drawn comb to get them going.

 

[pargyle]

Isolate queen in a cage?
That sounds simple enough thanks dani..
Im wondering how much to charge now.
It will be a package of bee's and queen.
The top bar hive is new so there will be no drawn comb it might be worth making a few frames up with drawn comb to get them going.

Top Bar Hive... the clue is in the name ... top bar hives only have top bars .,.. there are no frames or any supports below the top bar ... the bees build free comb in a catenary shape that follows the V shape of the hive. If it's a package of bees you just dump them into the TBH and let them get on with it. A painted strip of beeswax under the top bar gives them something to start with.

 

[drex]

CGF, I hope the TBH is for yourself. Having run both for several years, I feel it is better to have experience of conventional hives before trying top bar.
Chop and crop is, I feel, better for the bees. They have comb, stores and brood as a resource. Throwing a package or swarm straight in will work ( if they decide to stay) , but is much more work and stress for the bees.
Depending on the format of your nucs and the length of the top bars in your proposed TBH, it is possible to just put top bars into an established nuc, and once built out and filled, use them to give the TBH a good start. I have used all methods. Even if it may seem brutal, I have found chop and crop to work the best

 

[Ian123]

I saw a you tube clip of a guy using strips of chicken wire down each side of the top bar pinned into sides and about 50-60mm downcomb face. Then pushing the spikes into comb and tied through appeared to work well, obviously better on old comb.

 

[mbc]

Hi, I'm after some advice on how I could transfer a maisemore poly 6 frame nuc to a top bar hive, something I've never done.
May need to do in the spring.

Thanks as always.

I'd be tempted (not really, I despise long hives!) to let the nuc build up to swarming then artificially swarm 90+% of the bees and queen into the tbh and feed heavily, leaving the nuc with a queen cell and a skeleton crew of workers to look after her and the brood - to be put in a different apiary. 2 for the price of one
Poly nucs are such fun, you can really play around with them

 

[Curly green finger's]

Just to clarify the top bar hive isn't mine but the beek has had bees in conventional hives for a while.

@ mbc that idea of pushing them to swarm mode is an idea and I would get another colony of a cell was left.

This has come about because some one wants to buy a nuc of me but transfer bees to a top bar hive hence me asking for the best way to do it.. I've got a few options.
I would rather leave them with brood the easy option isn't always the best.
Cheers

Ps I have looked at long hives.. I would rather have a log hive like grandad would of had years ago

 

[mbc]

Just to clarify the top bar hive isn't mine but the beek has had bees in conventional hives for a while.

@ mbc that idea of pushing them to swarm mode is an idea and I would get another colony of a cell was left.

This has come about because some one wants to buy a nuc of me but transfer bees to a top bar hive hence me asking for the best way to do it.. I've got a few options.
I would rather leave them with brood the easy option isn't always the best.
Cheers

Ps I have looked at long hives.. I would rather have a log hive like grandad would of had years ago

It's not a bad scheme, its amazing how few bees left you can get away with, poly is so cosy, and of course if they're about to swarm they've generally got little uncapped brood that needs feeding but lots of about to emerge capped brood that only needs the slightest attention from them before emerging, especially if it's early summer and warmish at night, I'd block the vented bottom off once they're in position until their population has grown a bit after shaking.

 

[Curly green finger's]

It's not a bad scheme, its amazing how few bees left you can get away with, poly is so cosy, and of course if they're about to swarm they've generally got little uncapped brood that needs feeding but lots of about to emerge capped brood that only needs the slightest attention from them before emerging, especially if it's early summer and warmish at night, I'd block the vented bottom off once they're in position until their population has grown a bit after shaking.

Thanks mate.. Hmm there's more options than you think.

 

[mbc]

Bit of a disclaimer on leaving a very weak nuc after shaking, don't put them in an area of high bee pressure, its not good practice during the June gap or later when wasps are about and also if it's to stock someone else's hive and they're paying, make sure they get what they're paying for, maybe Dani's suggestion of just donating the brood is better in this case.
I'm doing a few langstroths for someone in the spring and I'm shaking these from national six frame nucs myself, but will hold onto the langies until they've drawn out their frames and the first brood is emerging, the customer just has to wait three weeks further on than they would have to if they'd ordered nats.
The brood from these will get donated, probably in a second brood box for those maisemore nucs (which I use a lot of and think they're excellent, they make the system very flexible, I often use them with an excluder and harvest a box of honey off nucs this way if it hasn't been convenient to promote them to full size hives)

 

[Brewer24]

This will be a real pain. I have done this from national frames to TB.
Problems:
Attempting to chop frames and trim comb/foundation leads to a lot of damage to comb and even comb breaking off
Its very difficult to fix comb/foundation securely and in line to TB’s to allow the bees to repair and work back to good.
National frames are open due to spacing so a very secure flexible lid over national frames will need to be improvised to keep the girls in and others out. Difficult at the best of times.
I agree that putting a fresh swarm in to a TB and fingers crossed that they build comb and become established.
TB to national much much easier.
Before the usual comments fly in I have TB’s and nationals and have tried so many different methods, vee shaped national frames, long nails and elastic bands, hanging comb with wool and putting false sides in a brood box to encourage vee shaped comb.
hence moving over to nationals which are a doddle to manage compared to TB’s.
I hope you succeed and think outside the box when attempting this.
Cheers.

 

[madasafish]

TBHs are difficult to manage even for experienced beekeepers. Even inspecting comb is difficult. You cannot rotate comb, it MUST be held vertical. (Or it collapses).
Taking a fame out of the middle of a hive means moving lots of others - sideways - with all that entails. And closing frames together when all the bees love to climb out through gaps in the bars and not squash a lot of bees is a major undertaking for the inexperienced.

An artificial swarm into a TBH with no drawn comb is great IF the bees draw comb straight. If they cross comb it can be a nightmare even if you know what you are doing.

Yes: chop and crop is messy.
Yes: you damage some brood.

But at least the resulting colony has vertical comb running the correct way. So fresh comb building is easier for bees and keeper.

If you have only used foundation, it is MUCH harder. You have to learn new techniques.

I switched from 7 plus TBHs to Langstroth in 2015-6 for those very reasons (and others).

Managed properly, TBHs are hard work . (Which explains perhaps why many aren't)

 

[happyculteur]

Thanks mate.. Hmm there's more options than you think.

Here's another one, as he's experienced. Let him do the transfer and you collect your emptied nuc later. You are onloading all the hassle of what somebody else wants to do. For a Warré it's easier as I can use an adaptor and let the bees build downwards. And even then it's so much easier to plan long enough in advance to set up some *right size* frames or bars in the donator hive to start with.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Here's another one, as he's experienced. Let him do the transfer and you collect your emptied nuc later. You are onloading all the hassle of what somebody else wants to do. For a Warré it's easier as I can use an adaptor and let the bees build downwards. And even then it's so much easier to plan long enough in advance to set up some *right size* frames or bars in the donator hive to start with.

I don't know how experienced she is but I would rather help just to make sure.

Like I said, as she is buying a nuc it wouldn't be fair that the customer only gets none of the brood but just bees.. It doesn't seem fair to me..
We will sort something out between us I'm sure.

Thanks for your experiences folks and ideas, it's given me something to think about and it looks like I will have to think out side the box with the way to go forward.. Think! Think! Think!

 

[Newbeeneil]

I supplied a nuc to be used on a TBH a couple of years ago. I made up a couple of frames the shape of the TBH. I fixed some drawn comb into these frames with elastic bands. When I transferred the bees to the TBH I put the top bar frames in the hive with the queen and connected the nuc to one of the entrances via a 2" pipe and a piece of QX. The queen was happy on the drawn comb, the foragers started using the TBH immediately and as the brood emerged in the nuc the bees transferred to the TBH. Took about a month but worked a treat.

 

[Swarm]

I sold a nuc to a lady for a TBH, she 'adjusted' the frames. I went to take a look a couple of weeks later and they were doing fine and drawn combs.