too early to inspect for new queen?

[acabee]

Following on from previous threads I've posted on AS problems and QCs...

By my calculations emergency QCs were capped on 20 May. Weather last week has been reasonable, dry and warm. Looking from outside today, no pollen going into either hive at all. Bees actively in and out, perhaps a little 'frenzied' / skittish on landing board.

Is it too early to inspect for eggs/brood? I don't want to disrupt and instill balling. But don't want to leave too long if needing to buy in new queen.

Thanks for your thoughts

acabee

 

[Finman]

.
it is quite near laying. If weathers are good, look after 3 days.

 

[clv101]

Capped on the 20th May, emerge on the 27th, mating flights would have been around 31st - 3rd assuming good weather, I'd be checking for eggs around 13-15th June.

 

[Finman]

Capped on the 20th May, emerge on the 27th, mating flights would have been around 31st - 3rd assuming good weather, I'd be checking for eggs around 13-15th June.

It takes 10 days after emerging when the queen starts to lay.

Queen cell capped - emerging 10 days later

= 20 days.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

I wouldn't be bothering for another week.

Very few queens were mated in May last year and even fewer the previous year.

We are, I reckon, about a month behind the 'norm' season-wise, so I would not be in a hurry to disturb them.

If you must, check late in the afternoon after any possible mating flights would have taken place. You are cleary 'itching' to check or you would not have posted.

Just think, what you would do if there is no brood? Buy a queen tomorrow or wait another week? That should give you the answer to your question.

RAB

 

[acabee]

Thanks all. Good advice methinks to wait some more.
o90o - my 'itch' is more that I've just returned from long haul overseas trip and trying to assess the situation in a jet-lagged fug.

I'll post an update when I do eventually get to inspect.

Thanks again
acabee

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I've just returned from long haul overseas trip and trying to assess the situation in a jet-lagged fug.

You twit!

It's the virgin queen that does the mating flight - not the Beek!


Mind you.....................


Dusty

 

[northernsoul]

My experience is that the q doesn't start laying until you've given up all hope and purchased a new queen.
Only then when you lift the crown board to insert the cage will you find brood.

 

[beeno]

Hi acabee,
Queen cell capped 20th May means emerge 27th May, three days for hardening, 30th of May. Had pretty descent weather since then you should be seeing capped brood!

 

[galileo]

Watch the entrance until the weekend at the earliest.

If every other bee is wearing colourful trousers, there's a party going on in there, and it's probably one that involves eggs. My experience, such as it is, is that pollen import ramps up a couple of gears when there's a laying queen in residence.

Fingers crossed.... I've got 3 in the same place as you, so I know it's hard to resist the beek peek urge.

 

[Finman]

.
It seems to be variation what happens in queen's life cycle. Even queen breeders give different information.

Worker bee larvae are all feeded with royal jelly 3 first days. Those are able to become a queen.

larva is feeded 5 days.
capped
larva continues feeding under cap half day
Then pupa, which is 8 days.

(wikipedia)

It depends, how old larva bees start to make queen. Of course, the oldest larva emerges first.

Queen makes mating flight at the age of 7 days.
Mating days are 1-3. Mostly 2

What I have seen my queens, it starts to lay on 10th day.
Swarm cell virgin may be couple days old when it comes out.

When I graft larvae on Sunday afternoon, it is next week's Thursday evening, when first emerges = 16 days. It tells too that larva has been 1 day old.


One day here or there. However it takes long time. With buying a queen you get one brood cycle and you get better quality.

 

[oliver90owner]

you should be seeing capped brood!

Optimism is one thing; reality is often very different.

Question still stands: What will be done if there is no brood? If nothing, then the inspection was an utter waste of time, effort - and an unnecessary disturbance to the colony. Thinking straight and looking just a little further ahead is well worth the effort.

 

[beeno]

Sorry Oliver, but three days for hardening I have read. Checked it out with one of my queens and voila it worked she went on her mating flight day four. That was not optimism in this case it was fact. Laid two days later. Let's not re-write the text books too soon.

 

[Finman]

you should be seeing capped brood!

What will be done if there is no brood? .

You may buy a laying queen.

.

 

[Finman]

she went on her mating flight day four.

If it is a swarm queen, it is possible, but if it is a normal reared queen, it takes 7 days from hatching.

You may pick extremes, but it does not help in reality. Reality is that normal time from hatching to laying is 10 days or more.

 

[oliver90owner]

Beano,

You really need to do some simple sums. Capped brood takes a lot longer than eggs and the minimum time from capped queen cell to capped brood is just cloud cuckoo land for all but the ideal conditions. Just join real life - reality. It would save giving out bum advice.

 

[BeeJayBee]

By my calculations emergency QCs were capped on 20 May. Weather last week has been reasonable, dry and warm. Looking from outside today, no pollen going into either hive at all. Bees actively in and out, perhaps a little 'frenzied' / skittish on landing board.

Is it too early to inspect for eggs/brood? I don't want to disrupt and instill balling. But don't want to leave too long if needing to buy in new queen.

Capped on the 20th May, emerge on the 27th, mating flights would have been around 31st - 3rd assuming good weather, I'd be checking for eggs around 13-15th June.

This 'queen rearing calendar' agrees - based on eggs laid on 21th May / capped 20th May. http://www.thebeeyard.org/cgi-bin/queencalendar.pl?month=5&day=15&year=2013

There's also a good downloadable and printable 'honeybee lifecycle reckoner' at Edinburgh & Midlothian Beekeepers http://tinyurl.com/lbzxj3o (Somebody's selling them on fleabay for £3!)

 

[Elaine]

"There's also a good downloadable and printable 'honeybee lifecycle reckoner' at Edinburgh & Midlothian Beekeepers http://tinyurl.com/lbzxj3o "

Thanks for the link - that is very useful, just printed one out

 

[Luminos]

This one was passed to me, and is quick easy to read (if it will let me post the link):
www.bushfarms. com/beesmath.htm

 

[beeno]

Beano,

You really need to do some simple sums. Capped brood takes a lot longer than eggs and the minimum time from capped queen cell to capped brood is just cloud cuckoo land for all but the ideal conditions. Just join real life - reality. It would save giving out bum advice.

Hi Oliver,
Real life is that most people work 0900-1730 hrs and the rest including commuting and most inspections take place Saturday or Sunday. Therefore it should be capped brood or near enough come the weekend. Mine laid in twelve days not as good as Finman, but it is not a good idea to wait for 'Godot' in beekeeping terms. Bite the bullet or get substandard stock! Thanks for the personal message - you know who you are. No obscenities in mine Oliver!