To treat or not for varroa

[chrischris]

This is more of a seeking of views from other beekeepers regarding treating for varroa, having just watched the DVD Queen of the Sun I was interested by a view expressed that we may be doing more harm than good by trying to suppress varroa levels, it was suggested that we are not allowing the bees to build up there own natural immunity to varroa and allowing them to reach a stage where they can live with them. What do other beekeepers think, does anyone run hives without treating for varroa, if so do the bees survive.

Regards Chris

 

[Heather]

I have treated each year, but am fascinated that this year I have 4 colonies that are not dropping any varroa through the omf.

Others have minimal drop- 3/4 a week.

I have no evidence of ants etc removing them as other detritus remains there, and I am checking regularly to ensure I am not mistaken.

I may apply an Apiguard but if there is no drop within 3 days I may remove from just those hives and just let them continue to self monitor.

Maybe varroa didn't like the crap summer either!

 

[Mike a]

Varroa levels do seem to be much lower this year than last year and last year they were lower than 2010 but I'm not taking any chances and I will treat as normal. I do not believe most colonies can survive year after year without being treated, there may well be a handful of bee keepers who are convinced their bees are either varroa free or manage varroa without needing treatments but mine do if I want them to get through Winter strong and healthy. This year I will also be treating some of my hives with oxalic acid for the first time to see if its something I will continue to do year on year to all my colonies.

If you want to go down the non chemical route then the only method that I found that worked to remove the most amount of varroa in one go was shook swarming on to clean new frames (In Spring). This is something I do to my colonies once every two years anyway as a matter of hygiene and disease control and to ensure the combs are less than 2 years old in every hive.

 

[Finman]

DVD Queen of the Sun I was interested by a view expressed that we may be doing more harm than good by trying to suppress varroa levels, it was suggested that we are not allowing the bees to build up there own natural immunity to varroa
Regards Chris

that is biggest rubbish what in beekeeping has ever invented.

Like a gipsy horse, it was near to learn how to get on without food, but it died.

Varroa is the most dangerous promblem in bees today and it is becoming worse.

i killed my first varroa hive 30 years ago. During that time I have felt that now I know that. But no. 2 years ago I lost 30% of my hives and every winter varroa reduces the bee cluster. I out 2-box hive to winter and in spring I may have couple of frames of bees.
10 y ago I lost 60% of my hives when mite became Apistan resistant in my yard.

Those DVD guye do not mention that varroa has 10 generation in a year and mite evolute much more faster tha bee. It is much more quicker to make mutations against treatment methods.

Further more, that job is no at all for 2-hive owners of 80 year old Scottish retired engineers who may have ONE beehive which MIGHT BE MITE TOLERANT.

Hoppiers think that if they cacth "a wild hive" that is a one which is resistant to bees. How in earth one hive in the middle of 5000 hives can be resistant. Its origin must be in Universe!

Fairy tales and more fairytales.

 

[Finman]

.
We may read from internet how New Zealand reasearcher made breakthrough 5 years ago in breeding mite tolerant bees. They have got origin from Germany after carefull evaluation.

But where are those bees now. from where I can buy them.


Yes, I remember a French beestock, yes. Where are they when the whole world suffer from mite.
.

 

[madasafish]

Strangely enough there are people who do not treat successfully.

What they tend not to dwell on is how long it took to achieve that state and their losses on the way and how bad tempered some of their bees are.

Mere mortals with less than infinite time , patience , money and lifespan want to have minimum hassle - and treat..

Otherwise you will become an expert on deaths from varroa . Deaths of hives that is, not just individual bees.

Seen it happen : don't want to go there.

 

[aberreef]

Varroa sky high earlier on this year but partially sorted now. No question about me treating this autumn and winter

With the possible development of bee resistance to varroa, surely treating can only weaken the mites and therefore make resistance more likely? Like a vaccination type thing

 

[oliver90owner]

I will be treating in the autumn - clean healthy bees going into winter is the number one requirement for colonies to survive the winter (stores being adequate in all colonies).

Apart from that, I only treat if I deem it necessary.

 

[Tom Bick]

I had a couple of colonies early in the year that showed a higher mite drop than now but I have also seen an ant remove a mite so ???

I will be starting with Thymol treatments at the weekend and will take that through to the end of September and will monitor the drop very close with sticky boards this time.

I have never used OA and I consider Thymol at this time of year to be the most important treatment and if used correctly you will take fit healthy bees into the winter.

 

[REDWOOD]

I only apply varroa gard in autumn

 

[madasafish]

I have never used OA and I consider Thymol at this time of year to be the most important treatment and if used correctly you will take fit healthy bees into the winter.

+1

 

[Luminos]

Lost my first and only colony in December, due to the effects of a massive varroa mite infestation.
Needless to say, I've been drone-culling all summer, using Varroa-Gard every week, and have Apiguard and Oxalic Acid and thymol crystals waiting in the wings.
(Wings - geddit??)

When someone comes up with the definitive varroa-resistant bee, great!
But until then, it won't be me experimenting with my bees.

 

[BeeMoustashe]

With a few hundred hives and a dedicated, highly efficient breeding programme, there is a chance of breeding the varroa tolerant bee. But not until you've lost a few hundred hives that weren't tolerant.

Me? I've had observation boards in for a week, and noticed about 2 mites dropped. Low infestation maybe. But I'll still be putting on Apiguard soon. I want those mites as close to gone as i can get! Then OA in winter.

On my scale, it wouldn't be fair on the bees not to treat. 'Natural Beekeeping' was all well and good 40 years ago, but now we have too many bee problems to just leave them to it like that.

 

[Finman]

This is more of a seeking of views from other beekeepers regarding treating for varroa, having just watched the DVD Queen of the Sun I was interested by a view expressed that we may be doing more harm than good by trying to suppress varroa levels, it was suggested that we are not allowing the bees to build up there own natural immunity to varroa and allowing them to reach a stage where they can live with them. What do other beekeepers think, does anyone run hives without treating for varroa, if so do the bees survive.

Regards Chris

there is not such like "varroa immunity". Never heard.

 

[lebouche]

I read online that August is the best time to use Thymol and organic acids can be used in December. I'd prefer not to use thymol...If I treat the brood, surely some of it will get transferred to the supers, perhaps when inspecting and I smoke them, and they regurgitate the honey after my visit (not a problem this year as my colony is small).
I imagine the answer to this question is that people use thymol once they have harvested the supers.

 

[Luminos]

I believe it's temperature-dependant, rather than month-specific

 

[Finman]

I read online that August is the best time to use Thymol and organic acids can be used in December. I'd prefer not to use thymol...If I treat the brood, surely some of it will get transferred to the supers, perhaps when inspecting and I smoke them, and they regurgitate the honey after my visit (not a problem this year as my colony is small).
I imagine the answer to this question is that people use thymol once they have harvested the supers.

I suppose that in UK sEPTEMBER IS A MOTH when thymol or formic acid should be used.
It kills mites which violate winter bee brood.

Stuffs will be given when yield has been collected and the colony size is decreasing.

Treatment lasts 3 weeks becauce thymol or formic acid fuel does not act under brood capping.
= brood cycle

Efficacy is in theory 96%, but if you have no luck, efficacy may bee 75%. It leaves too much living mites. So giving oxalic acid gives the last knock down when hive has any more brood.

I have tried to manage with mere oxalic acid but I have met big losses with that strategy. I bought 25 litres formic acid and that is my way with oxalic.

Formic and thymol needs day temp 17 to be effective. That is why you cannot use it when hive is broodless.
Oxalic acidåis only one which can be used in 0C temps.

 

[Polyanwood]

Karin Alton, Norman Carreck et al. ( laboratory of apiculture and social insects @ Sussex Uni) are trying to breed hygienic varroa resistant bees. They've been at it a few years.

I am convinced that they have got a method of testing for hygienic behaviour that works and they are now breeding from the more hygienic strains. What I remain to be convinced of (their science to date sheds no light on this at all) is that there will be proven to be a strong positive correlation between hygienic behaviour and the ability of a honey bee colony to live without treatment for varroa.

I'm keen to know how they get on.

 

[Finman]

Karin Alton, Norman Carreck et al. ( laboratory of apiculture and social insects @ Sussex Uni) are trying to breed hygienic varroa resistant bees. They've been at it a few years.

there are in every country those propell heads who try that. there are national projects too which has worked really longtime. Explanation is not 'hygienic behaviour'.

my friend professional beekeeper nurses Elgon bees. Crossing with Italians makes killer bees.
I gove up.

He has bought from France Gefys queens and he says that there is no mites in hives but they are impossible to nurse. Gefys queen price is huge!

New Zealand breeders did not accepted Russian bee from USA, because it is quite strange bugg.
German strains of Carnioland fighted better against varroa and brought more honey.

10 years ago it was written in internet that it is easy to breed mite tolerant strains but where are those strains?

REMEMBER, VARROA HAS FASTER EVOLUTION! It evolutes too.
Varroa is worse than ever. Guess why?

 

[Polyanwood]

Is there a reason why varroa would evolve faster than the bee? Shorter brood cycle, but what else?