To feed or not to feed?

[Compostcritter]

I have just extracted the honey out of my supers. I do not intend to take anymore this year, and want to feeding them up for winter. Do you think it's to early to start feeding?
Cheers

 

[Winker]

Im no expert but don't you think Winter is a long time away? Why would you want to feed for winter if its not even autumn? I am sure that if you take the supers off now and don't replace them, the bees will start to fill the BB with honey for their winter supply, which would cut down the laying space for the queen to build up her colony for the winter.

But I would not start the winter feed until the start of September. But im sure someone with more experience than myself will come along soon and give you some more seasoned advice.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

Did you remove all of the honey, or leave them some? Are they still bringing in nectar? Is there a likelihood in your area that there will be enough of a flow still on to enable them to build up sufficient stores for the winter?

I hope not to have to feed mine this year (I didn't last), because I will leave them enough to go on with until they can build up at least a super's worth of stores to see them through the winter. I know that some feel this is a waste of potential income. But somehow I feel that if they have done all of that work, they deserve a little of their own reward.

 

[For want of a better word]

I am presently feeding a cast................. maybe they may make up enough brood and lay down some stores to make it through a winter...
. live in hope,,, die in despair!

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I have just extracted the honey out of my supers. I do not intend to take anymore this year, and want to feeding them up for winter. Do you think it's to early to start feeding?
Cheers

If they have enough stores, then there would be no need for now but the odd litre won't do any harm. If, for example you go away on holiday it's good to know that there are stores in the hives.
As your supers are off, I assume you'll be treating for varroa now?

 

[rae]

If they are anything like ours, they will have a bunch of supers ready to be taken off, and some stores (2 or 3 full frames) in the brood box.

You've taken the supers off - fine.

It all depends on what forage is available, and how strong the colonies are. I would expect a decent strong colony to fill 1 or 2 supers in August - which I would take off. Everything from late August/ early September onwards is theirs. We have a very strong ivy flow, so they have no problem in filling their brood boxes.

I would expect your bees to have more than enough forage to fill their brood boxes between now and winter - so I wouldn't think feeding is necessary. The whole point of taking honey early (and leaving them with the rest of the year to fill up), is that you should not need to feed. Clearly if they are light, then feed.

There is a risk that if there is a decent flow on, and you feed, that they will fill the brood early and have nowhere to lay. At this point, they might even try a kamikaze swarm - which would be pretty fatal for you as the chance of getting queens laid at the back end of the season is poor.

What I would do is check for varroa, and start apiguard early if you have it badly. We seem to have quite a bit this year, so we are going to start treatment in early Aug.

 

[xray7]

Follow the advice here are you wont go far wrong :

http://www.ldbk.co.uk/winter-preparation/


feeding and varroa treatment should be done at the same time. If you treat for varroa without feeding the queen may stop laying. Check that they have enough stores between now and when you start feeding for winter (mid August) , if in doubt give them some fondant to keep them going.At this time of the year bees are likely to consume more stores than they can gather depending where hives are located.

 

[Chris B]

Every time you inspect your bees you should ask "do they have enough stores to survive until the next inspection?". If the answer is "yes" then I wouldn't bother with feeding until early September. If the answer is "no" then feed - you can't feed too much if the brood nest is still big due to lack of storage space.

 

[kazmcc]

If they are anything like ours, they will have a bunch of supers ready to be taken off, and some stores (2 or 3 full frames) in the brood box.

You've taken the supers off - fine.

It all depends on what forage is available, and how strong the colonies are. I would expect a decent strong colony to fill 1 or 2 supers in August - which I would take off. Everything from late August/ early September onwards is theirs. We have a very strong ivy flow, so they have no problem in filling their brood boxes.

I would expect your bees to have more than enough forage to fill their brood boxes between now and winter - so I wouldn't think feeding is necessary. The whole point of taking honey early (and leaving them with the rest of the year to fill up), is that you should not need to feed. Clearly if they are light, then feed.

There is a risk that if there is a decent flow on, and you feed, that they will fill the brood early and have nowhere to lay. At this point, they might even try a kamikaze swarm - which would be pretty fatal for you as the chance of getting queens laid at the back end of the season is poor.

What I would do is check for varroa, and start apiguard early if you have it badly. We seem to have quite a bit this year, so we are going to start treatment in early Aug.

Rae, ours sound just like yours. We were honey blocked but they've made plenty of room in the brood now, the outer two frames of the deep and shallow brood are packed and capped, with two capped supers on top ( well, the second one fully capped any day now ). I'm preparing for yet another super to go on....somehow I don't think we'll have a problem with them having enough stores for winter.

I'm planning on just letting them carry on storing, then extract all at once as I now have enough equipment thanks to Erichalfbee.

 

[richardbees]

I'm also on National hives and over-winter with just the brood box.

Wellingborough? I think you've stopped supering a bit early as there's another couple of months foraging. So definitely no need to feed as they should be well able to provide their own stores.

Suggest starting your varroa treatment (I use Apiguard)

Also it's an ideal opportunity to get a feel for the weight of the bb by lifting up an edge (beekeeping books call it "hefting" ) then doing it again in e.g. November when you know all the frames are full of stores.

 

[Vergilius]

Compostcritter?

Why remove the supers so early? There is every chance that, with August not yet started, the best weather for foraging is still to come. And the stuff about there being little forage to speak of in August is, in my opinion, bulls**t...

And if you are removing the supers now, you certainly do not need to start feeding them. In fact, you probably won't have to feed them at all. By winter your single box will be crammed with stores that could have been additional honey crop for you!

HM will also still be laying heavily, so by not providing additional space you will be restricting her laying space, which will mean less "winter bees", and there is also a small chance that you could still lose a swarm.

At the moment your colony will be very large, and imagine all those bees crammed into (presumably) one National BB - hive congestion will surely result!

For me, it is very simple. For a strong colony wait until the end of August, and then remove all supers - which, by this time, should be completely capped. Then, depending on the September, feed or don't feed as most strong colonies can easily fill one Nat box with stores without help in the mild Septembers we are having.

There is also easily enough time to do an apiguard treatment in late Aug/early Sep - once again due to the milder climate.

This way you capitalize on all possible honey crop, and your bees will be ready for winter in time.

Ben P

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Compostcritter?

Why remove the supers so early? There is every chance that, with August not yet started, the best weather for foraging is still to come. And the stuff about there being little forage to speak of in August is, in my opinion, bulls**t...


Ben P

In the last 4 years I have had diddly squat in August. 2 years ago there was nothing after the first week of July as the weather was so poor and the bees were eating through the honey so it came off and syrup feed went on.
All depends on where the apiary is. This year has been my best for bramble; next year will be different again.

 

[user 6228]

I have just extracted the honey out of my supers. I do not intend to take anymore this year, and want to feeding them up for winter. Do you think it's to early to start feeding?
Cheers

I think from the replies it might be best to recast the question

Because every apiary is different, How can I tell, from inspecting my hive, the signs when to stop taking honey and when to start feeding?

What happens if I do it late or early?

 

[Chris B]

The other sure sign that the flow is over, evident if you have multiple colonies, is robbing each other with the slightest provocation. Supers put aside while inspecting will draw lots of attention from neighbouring hives with little skirmishes going on. Right now this is the case in all my apiaries. Yes there's a little bit of this and that still available but you'll also notice fewer bees flying at the moment and those that do fly seem to have less purpose about them, not like a few weeks ago when they were like bullets going to and fro.

I've heard plenty of stories of supers being eaten by the bees in early August, especially Italians. Forget any idea of an August crop unless your bees are in town or on the heather, and even then don't count on anything.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

don't count on anything.

That's about right!