Those who has used pollen patties

[Finman]

Hi Finman, PBee and all,
You can use me as control, )?

This spring is good to test in UK, how different patties work

I have here very different situation

 

[PBee]

............. I have started freezing pollen for next year and was thinking of doing what you did PBee. Would it preserve the vitamins better just to sprinkle the pollen in as you knead the fondant (less heat)?

Good point. I was just trying to distribute the pollen evenly through the fondant. Apparently above 40degC proteins start to denature but I have no specific information on this regarding pollen. To melt the fondant the temperature would have been higher (didn't check at the time) but I was adding the pollen direct from the freezer so this brought the temperature down immediately. A better way - if the bees are not clustered -may be to just fill the pollen or a pollen/water(or syrup) slurry into a drawn frame and place beside the brood nest. Here is a paper which compares methods of feeding and the slurry form seems to be the most palatable to the bees.

 

[galileo]

Isn't it the other way round? i.e. Neopoll has pollen, Nektopoll does not?

Yep, well spotted - slip of the fingers/brain. My apologies for the misinformation. The salient point is that there's a slight preference for the real over the substitute pollen.

Cheers & blushes

 

[Little John]

Here is a paper which compares methods of feeding and the slurry form seems to be the most palatable to the bees.

Excellent paper - thanks for that. But how strange that it took from 2003 to 2011 to get it published ...

LJ

 

[PBee]

Well spotted - I hadn't noticed that. The interesting bit for me is the 'slurry' formulation. It seems to make sense to provide some of the water needs to reduce the water collection requirements.

 

[Finman]

.
In USA they have used jelly form protein feeding. It has more water than patty.

 

[Polyanwood]

Hi Finman, PBee and all,
You can use me as control, as I have not used any pollen patties at all. Waited for the weather to turn knowing there was plentiful pollen to be had and felt that I had left it too late anyhow. As luck has it, all my four colonies has brood. The last one inspected today four frames, two frames size of saucers both sides which surprised me. Big pollen stores as of this minute, but there was an aweful lot of eggs laid so it will not last long. As a matter of interest my winter bees must have absolutely gorged themselves on pollen as so much Ivy went in but not a scrap left on 5th March. I have started freezing pollen for next year and was thinking of doing what you did PBee. Would it preserve the vitamins better just to sprinkle the pollen in as you knead the fondant (less heat)?

Not sure we can use yours as a control
Your colonies have less than half the brood mine do, but I don't say that is because of the patties. Your suggestion that we consider how we mix pollen in, in order to maximise its preservation in the finished product is helpful. I think I might get the pollen trap out too!

 

[Little John]

Well spotted - I hadn't noticed that. The interesting bit for me is the 'slurry' formulation. It seems to make sense to provide some of the water needs to reduce the water collection requirements.

Absolutely - the study is quite conclusive that slurry is the one to go for. Obviously putting it directly into comb is favourite, but it would also be nice to be able to feed slurry without opening the hive - if possible. I'll work on that.

I'm also curious about the 'yeast extract' they used - no further info is given ... but I wonder ... could it have been Marmite ? "Love it or hate it "

LJ

(I love it)

 

[Finman]

.
Pals are going to climp to tree via canopy.
It is important that never give up, what ever it happens.
.

 

[beeno]

Not sure we can use yours as a control
Your colonies have less than half the brood mine do, but I don't say that is because of the patties. Your suggestion that we consider how we mix pollen in, in order to maximise its preservation in the finished product is helpful. I think I might get the pollen trap out too!

Hi Polyanwood,
I was not serious about the control bit, just wanted to say that I did not use it for the reasons stated. Brood is hard to come by in my micro climate according to the bee shop and they had had a rush on pollen patties. Sorry, but I have not found my way totally on this forum as yet I have obviously missed something if that is a 'royal we'.

 

[beeno]

Good point. I was just trying to distribute the pollen evenly through the fondant. Apparently above 40degC proteins start to denature but I have no specific information on this regarding pollen. To melt the fondant the temperature would have been higher (didn't check at the time) but I was adding the pollen direct from the freezer so this brought the temperature down immediately. A better way - if the bees are not clustered -may be to just fill the pollen or a pollen/water(or syrup) slurry into a drawn frame and place beside the brood nest. Here is a paper which compares methods of feeding and the slurry form seems to be the most palatable to the bees.

Thanks for study PBee. I shall go with your conclusions.

 

[alanf]

Absolutely - the study is quite conclusive that slurry is the one to go for. Obviously putting it directly into comb is favourite, but it would also be nice to be able to feed slurry without opening the hive - if possible. I'll work on that.

I'm also curious about the 'yeast extract' they used - no further info is given ... but I wonder ... could it have been Marmite ? "Love it or hate it "

Agree, useful paper. You would have to bear in mind that they are feeding during a hot dry pollen dearth with temperatures hitting 48C and humidity of 20%, not the cool damp conditions when we might be feeding. Looks like a long write up period, experiments concluded 2003 but citing papers from 2010.

The illustration of pouring the semi liquid into comb looks a bit disruptive when the weather is poor. Would uneaten food make the comb harder to use for brooding later? I can't see any reference to the water in their "slurry" beyond "warm water was added" which makes it harder to reproduce. The "patty" formulas tend to assume a mixture stiff enough to sit on top of frames, which slurry isn't going to do.

"Yeast extract" is probably the microbiology lab growing medium ingredient, a dry powder added to gels providing basic minerals and nutrients. Not cheap for lab quality though, list prices over 30 quid plus VAT for 500g tubs. I'd be wary of shop bought marmite because of the salt content.

 

[mbc]

I cant open it on this machine but I'm sure a couple of the tables list brewers yeast rather than yeast extract.

 

[keith pierce]

If fed some of weaker colonies pollen substitute in slurry form today and they had their heads in the cells straight away.

 

[Stickyfingers]

Gave pollen patties for two weeks now using Finman's recipe.They certainly have gone into over drive. They had no problems eating it.

 

[Finman]

Gave pollen patties for two weeks now using Finman's recipe.They certainly have gone into over drive. They had no problems eating it.

That is good to hear. I have not started my patty feeding but I am going to test how well they eate patty without irradiated pollen.

 

[Ely]

Hi Finman, PBee and all,
You can use me as control, as I have not used any pollen patties at all. Waited for the weather to turn knowing there was plentiful pollen to be had and felt that I had left it too late anyhow. As luck has it, all my four colonies has brood. The last one inspected today four frames, two frames size of saucers both sides which surprised me. Big pollen stores as of this minute, but there was an aweful lot of eggs laid so it will not last long. As a matter of interest my winter bees must have absolutely gorged themselves on pollen as so much Ivy went in but not a scrap left on 5th March. I have started freezing pollen for next year and was thinking of doing what you did PBee. Would it preserve the vitamins better just to sprinkle the pollen in as you knead the fondant (less heat)?

Same here. One 14 x 12 one 16 x 10. Last week 3 frames of brood (both sides) this week 4. No pollen fed