Thornes Dartington hive

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stormpsy

New Bee
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
49
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0
Location
Whitefield - Manchester
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
22 WBC Nationals (14X12)
Hi all.

im looking into getting 3 next year just wondered on here who bought 1 from Thornes.
 
I know five people who built there own dartington hive in early 2000s but now none of them use them
 
I know five people who built there own dartington hive in early 2000s but now none of them use them

50 years ago Darlington type hives were common in Finland but during last 20 years they are none. Langstroth took their place.

Construction and nursing book 1945. Kääntöpesä = Turn around hive.

1145_swh254_20144613578.jpg

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Hi all.

im looking into getting 3 next year just wondered on here who bought 1 from Thornes.

I have one Long Deep Hive (home made and heavily insulated) and I love it ... and the bees seem to as well ... total cost to build from mainly reclaimed materials ... £20 or thereabouts. Would I build another ? ... Yes.

Would I pay between £375 and £700 for ONE from Thornes ?... definitely not !!

I also have two Paynes 14 x 12 Poly hives as well and to be perfectly honest - they have a lot of benefits over a Dartington. Cost £112 including frames. They will be even cheaper in their winter sale ... and you could pick up frames in the sales for less ... could get it down to less than £100 per hive and they are very nice to work.

You need to consider why you think you want a Dartington before you blow somewhere over £1000 (at least) on three Dartingtons.
 
Hi all.

im looking into getting 3 next year just wondered on here who bought 1 from Thornes.

I make my own Long Hives, both Deep and Standard from pallet wood (and I paint the insides ... :) ) - it ain't difficult. Cost ? Around £10(ish) - maybe £20 with supers. They cost so little it's difficult to put an exact price on 'em.

Consider making your own - you'll save a ton of cash, and you can control the build quality. I'd stack up a home-built Long Hive against one of Thornes any day.

LJ
 
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The main hive body is simplicity to build. The only hard bit, as long as cuts are accurate, is the rebate on the side rails. There is not one nail in those I made; good long screws, properly piloted, for joining the 18mm ply and the substantial cross braces. I did consider extending the long sides slightly and cutting slots in the shorter sides, but settled for butt joints as per the destructions.

The roofs are simply built up as required, dependent on type chosen - I made mine in the gabled style, but the pent version would have been easier, and cheaper too.

The 'country' style legs are more of a pain than the simple vertical option, but once the jig had been made for the planer, making interchangeable legs was a doddle. For mine, the legs fold out horizontally, making it easy for two people to carry a hive, even with bees at home.

The floor benefits from being in one sheet - my first had two halves, and I have regretted that economy - and the expanded metal flooring, while possibly heavier lends even more rigidity to the box than a woven mesh. It is also easier blanking one end from the other, as well.

Supers? I nearly always use National shallows, sometimes using the half supers only as props for the roof.

Carry boxes? Just not needed for most. I have used mine once only, and that was for a demonstration; they have since been used as nucs and bait hives with proper roofs and fitted with floors as necessary. Certainly would not need six of them!

So, with some thought, they can be knocked up to Robin's destructions, or a very close copy with a few modifications, for relatively little money. A sheet of 18mm ply would make a hive with about 20% spare, if forgetting the half supers and carry boxes, so 2 sheets might make three bodies with cover boards. A sheet of 9mm would be sufficient for the three roofs with about a third left over. Softwood battens are standard sections, so easily sourced; the odds and ends would be cut from the leftovers and one can make some half supers if really needed from leftovers and perhaps some extra material.

I believe the destructions for making these are still available from Robin, but if not I could help with some dimensions, but would not wish to copy his booklet as it is his material. Basic dimensions are really easy to sort out - National frames have to be accommodated, after all, so dimensions are fixed to the National internal measurements, but just a tad longer..... or even a lot longer.....
 
I don't own one but have worked them. As long as you don't want to move your bees to a crop, they are a perfectly good hive

As above, don't buy a plastic one, don't buy a new T's one, make one (or maybe see if one come up on a well known recycled tat site)
 
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Well. It seems there must be quite a few languishing unused. Unfortunately, ply tends to deteriorate more rapidly if left untreated, unused and neglected.
 
i know of an old wooden dartington for sale with bees for a ton but its a long way from Manchester as it is near junction 5 of the M1 and you would need a van to move it

The main problem i have had using them is the weight of the roof and bees leaking from between the half supers
 
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bees leaking from between the half supers

The one, single reason on its own why I quickly discarded them and used National shallows (could use deeps, if you chose to, I suppose).
 
Why do people add supers to a long deep (or Dartington)? Why don't they use it just like an ordinary top bar hive with the brood nest on one side and honey frames on the other? Is it that they don't want to put deep frames into an extractor - and would that that be the only reason for adding supers (with the bee-leaking problem)?
 
I think that's one reason - the other being that many people want to remove a whole box of honeycombs in one go rather than individually - so for them it's either a full size super of shallow combs, or a half-sized box of deeper combs (in order to save their backs). Or simply to manoeuvre that half-sized box around a tight stairwell - which was Dartington's original reason for choosing that format.

LJ
 
Why do people add supers to a long deep (or Dartington)? Why don't they use it just like an ordinary top bar hive with the brood nest on one side and honey frames on the other? Is it that they don't want to put deep frames into an extractor - and would that that be the only reason for adding supers (with the bee-leaking problem)?

Partly, I don't have an extractor that will take 14 x 12 frames so it means borrowing the big one from the association but ... the bees do seem to be very prolific in my LDH and at it's peak in the summer I had over 17 seams of bees and they are still a big colony - so I suspect that people look to put supers on the hive as they could be very quick to fill them ... ask me again next year when I hope to have supers on my LDH.
 
Why do people add supers to a long deep (or Dartington)? Why don't they use it just like an ordinary top bar hive with the brood nest on one side and honey frames on the other? Is it that they don't want to put deep frames into an extractor - and would that that be the only reason for adding supers (with the bee-leaking problem)?

The dartington has two entrances, it allows you to do your AS swarm control in one box using a divison board, then recombine just be removing one divison board,
you can alos use it as a large overwinter hive then split by adding a young queen in spring to recombine in autumn to one big hive to overwinter

Use as a TBH, well you could but can you spin out 14x12 frames at 8lb a time, it has to be tangential spun and limits you to only 70lb of honey
and a big 23 frame dartington with supers can get much more in a good season
 
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The dartington has two entrances, it allows you to do your AS swarm control in one box using a divison board, then recombine just be removing one divison board,
you can alos use it as a large overwinter hive then split by adding a young queen in spring to recombine in autumn to one big hive to overwinter

That is exactly how our long hives worked 70 years ago. In those days semiferal colonies were small. They needed one brood box and one or two honey boxes. Busy swarming ruined the yield every year.

When new profilic queen were breeded in Finland, long hive was too small to them and unpractical to nurse.

If you had a profilic hive, it needs good pastures too. Long hives were impossible to migrate to outer pastures.

In those days old farts said that those new queens are not good. ... Because there was no space in those old style hives.

Our experinced farts say too, that bees are not able to handle horizontal hive. Bees like to swarm more in those hives. They surely have tried many kind of systems.

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Similar style hives are popular in Eastern Europe and they are nursed in similar way. (Chest hive)
Good in those hives is that they are more difficult to steal than Langstroth hives.

Long hive in Ukraine. Two colonies in one hive warm each others in winter.
http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/ukraine.htm



ukrainehive.gif
 
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No real swarming problem with a Dartington - artificially swarmed within the long deep body, if and when necessary. Fairly simple operation with no real loss of crop and easy recombination, later, if required. Easy to encourage supercedure cells for increase, as well.

Potential problem with two colonies back to back in winter might be isolation starvation - staying at the warm end? I have only ever over-wintered with a single colony in the centre section of the long body. Plenty of scope to insulate all around, if needed.
 
No real swarming problem with a Dartington - artificially swarmed within the long deep body, if and when necessary. Fairly simple operation with no real loss of crop and easy recombination, later, if required. Easy to encourage supercedure cells for increase, as well.

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OK. That is splended beekeeping then.
 

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