The Test Frame.... some info

[oliver90owner]

a good thing which gives others a choice

That is OK up to a point.

Sending the message to new beeks, who maybe don't understand why the 'i***t proof' method is set out so precisely, that there are 'plenty of other ways' will likely lead to them experimenting without any experience. That is likely to lead to 'oops it's gone wrong' and 'PANIC'.

Learning how to do it (Rote) is not the same as learning why it is done like that. Following a set of 'steps' does not teach anyone any insight of the possible rammifications of deviating from the letter of those instructions.

Regards, RAB

 

[melliferus]

I started beekeeping last year, and yesterday (having never used a test frame before) I introduced one into a colony.

If the colony is indeed queenless, and I can expect sealed queen cells five days after introducing the test frame (see Poly Hive's post of 31/01/2011), that presumably means that the bees raise the cells from larvae rather than eggs. (I guess that they may subsequently raise cells from eggs as well, but because these would be a few days later in development, they would probably be killed by the first queen to emerge.)

I am concerned that without some sort of intervention, there is a significant risk that the queens raised from larvae in a test frame might quite likely be of poor quality, having missed their first day of two of suitable queen food. I have three questions:

1. Is what I say above about the risk of poor quality queens correct?

2. If so, I theorise that I could reduce or eliminate that risk by one of the following approaches:

a) If cells have been raised after 24 hours AND there are still eggs present, I could destroy the cells in order to avoid scrub queens. At the risk of too much intervention, I could do the same again the following day as well. But after that, any further cells that appear would presumably be raised from larvae guaranteed to be newly hatched from the eggs.

b) A test frame taken from the "outside frame" of the brood nest of another colony will typically contains brood in a roughly circular pattern, and the age of the brood tends to be oldest towards the centre of this circle and youngest towards the edge (certainly the eggs on the frame that I introduced yesterday were at the periphery of the circle). Therefore the other approach would be to wait about 4-5 days, and then cull out all cells except those at the periphery of the brood area.

3. Assuming this analysis is correct, which approach is preferable? (I would guess (b) on the grounds of minimum intervention.)

4. If not, what is the recommended way to proceed when/if queen cells are produced?

 

[Poly Hive]

I see a misapprehension here.

A test frame is just for this purpose. It tests what the actual (as opposed to the surmised) condition of the colony is regarding being either queen + {whether mated or virgin} or queenless.

It is nothing to do with queen rearing. Frankly if you think you can find and destroy every egg on a frame your eyesight is enviable...lol

I hope this clarifies this matter for you.

It would also help in general if you change your location to roughly where you are not the UK that you have as you could be in Lerwick or Brighton.

PH

 

[Springer]

Thank for that excellent info and summary of getting out of the do doos, Ph. As someone up stream said will print it out for reference.
Think I am already in need of it.

 

[merylvingien]

I was under the new impression from last nights post, that if you pop a test frame into a queenless hive and they do not build queen cells, this means the hive is indeed queenless

 

[Poly Hive]

I was under the new impression from last nights post, that if you pop a test frame into a queenless hive and they do not build queen cells, this means the hive is indeed queenless

Not sure which post you mean but it is the absolute opposite.

Insert test frame and no cells = a queen of some sort.

Insert test frame and cells = queenless colony.

PH

 

[susbees]

as you could be in Lerwick or Brighton.

PH

As I will be in the morning. Brighton that is...end of the known universe and an absolute pain to get to. And yes, it's bees.

 

[merylvingien]

Not sure which post you mean but it is the absolute opposite.

Insert test frame and no cells = a queen of some sort.

Insert test frame and cells = queenless colony.

PH

Errr maybe you can decipher your own post then

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10800

 

[Poly Hive]

Of course I can.

One glass too many, on too late, too tired and thinking back to front. Simples.

PH

 

[melliferus]

Sorry PH, I wasn’t quite clear in my first post about which cells I was proposing to cull. The last sentence in (b) should have read: “Therefore the other approach would be to wait about 4-5 days, and then cull out all QUEEN cells except those at the periphery of the brood area”.

Regarding your comment (in post #23 above) about queen rearing: if the test frame shows that the colony was indeed queenless (because it contains new queen cells), and I don’t have pre-raised queens available to introduce, I was intending to use the queen cells raised on the test frame. I was just trying to find out how to raise the best queen under those conditions (ie. to avoid a scrub queen).

 

[Poly Hive]

If you have a powerful colony then it will work well enough. However If it is NOT that strong then it would me better to buy from a decent source.

PH

 

[Busybee123]

If you have a powerful colony then it will work well enough. However If it is NOT that strong then it would me better to buy from a decent source.

PH

Excellent thread PH - has answered many of my questions!

I have a queenless colony, but can't get mated laying queens locally at the moment so will let them raise a queen and will requeen later on if queen is no good.

If you can't get a mated laying queen when you need it you don't have anything to lose by letting the bees raise a queen themselves in the meantime.

Do you agree PH?

 

[Poly Hive]

I do yes.

PH

 

[kathrynat]

I hope nobody minds me bumping this thread. I found it very helpful at my start to beekeeping, and I am sure some of the new beeks will find it equally helpful.
thank you PH