The National Uncapper

[MartinBee]

Thanks he said he was also doing some others though showing frames maybe not quite as even that is my concern and also from say a 10 frame box where much fatter.

youtube.com/@TheNationalUncapper and i have now learnt about using drone foundation in the supers! bonus!!

 

[ericbeaumont]

tip and scrape into your own siving set up

Yes, a better option. To be effective, the tray/tank must collect quite a volume before it gets above the lowest point of the tap.

If the tank is set up for sequential extractions during the season, honey may easily begin to set before it would be worth running it out through the tap.

Another minus: if the beekeeper extracts different types of honey, the tray contents will be a composite which will reduce the sale value of, say, the heather that drained into it in August.

 

[MartinBee]

An attractive alternative option would be being able to place it on an existing uncapping tank. Although worth noting that Murray McGregor is constantly moaning UK beekeepers demanding slight modifications to suit their niche operation which results in what started as a simple product being overloaded with gimmicky additions.

@Jimmy this has now been mentioned a couple of times, so thank you. We will make the box an optional item at check out but include the fixings as standard. See the photos below, you will see that our version has fixing points for an M6 bolt at 408mm centres. The model pictures is the Prototype and shows 6 fixing points, we reduced the original 4 points down to 2 points centres on the midpoint axis of the end sections. The DIY savvy of you will have no problem fixing to your own tray with this info.

 

[MartinBee]

What happens to the cappings?

I have been asked about wax clogging filters in the extractor, so i have photographed what state everything was in after a 42 frame extraction, and where the cappings went:

1. Most cappings stay on the frame, the frames were fully extracted
2. approx half a litre of capping ended up in my uncapping tray, which i put through a fine sieve
3. A minority of cappings came out in the extractor, certainly less than was in the tray
4. I put frames i this condition back into a hive and after 1 week could not tell which frames had been through the uncapper. There were very few cappings at the bottom of the hive so i expect they were reused in repairing the supers.

 

[MartinBee]

Hi Martin
Will it do lots of frames without getting clogged up?

Dani, yesterday we put trialed the Uncapper at the Petersfield & District BKA "Extraction Day" event. We processed 12 standard 11 frame supers and all the members had a go with the Uncapper. After 100 frames the blades were not "clogged", still working but i would have used a hose to jet out the wax which inevitable gets lodged in places. After spinning, 5 frames were returned for a second go through uncapping as there was un extracted honey in them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Amari]

Hello Queens & Drones, I had that same thought about building my own uncapper after looking at the Harmony Farms Simple Uncapper and realising why the American version only fits the Langstroth frames. When you try it on a National frame, the uncapping blades roll up the outside of the frame and fail to uncap ...

Anyway, i did design and make up a prototype version that suits the unique geometry of the UK National frame size. You are all a fiercely independent and opinionated bunch so i'll expect some frank feedback but i can say that it works really well in trials, is fast and clean (and has the benefit of destroying very little wax on the frames, which as an engineering beekeeper i like because of the energy balance for bees). I think i'm looking forward to your feedback, but it is always a bit nerve wracking when you send your creation out into the world. youtube.com/@TheNationalUncapper

I see that you have an advert in August's BBKA News for the Uncapper.

 

[MartinBee]

I see that you have an advert in August's BBKA News for the Uncapper.

I do, well spotted Amari, trying to sell a few!

 

[polymath]

@Martin Godet Kindly came around yesterday to demo it. Well, i have just purchased. It truly is amazing i reckon it will save 30% plus on time, in fact i have a 9 frame electric radial - uncapping used to be the pinch point - no more. I need a bigger extractor I can uncap faster than i can spin out now.

As i run mainly on 9/10 frame boxes a sharp eyed person may see it just has two bands on this i am finding works well. Will use three for my 11 frame boxes.

I did though make my own support as i have a stainless steel stray it sits on with storage after uncapping pre spinning over a heated pratly tray. See pic for set up - stand is tall enough to handle brood frames as well. Needs to be clamped down as when you pull the frame up the unit grips it.

 

[ericbeaumont]

9/10 frame boxes ... two bands ... Will use three for my 11 frame boxes.

1 What is the practical difference, if the frames are the same size?
2 How did you attach the uncapper to the support frame? I can see the frame is clamped to the base unit, but how did you attach the uncapper to the frame?

 

[Swarm]

1 What is the practical difference, if the frames are the same size?
2 How did you attach the uncapper to the support frame? I can see the frame is clamped to the base unit, but how did you attach the uncapper to the frame?

Extra pressure for thinner combs, I would imagine.

 

[Newbeeneil]

@Martin Godet Kindly came around yesterday to demo it. Well, i have just purchased. It truly is amazing i reckon it will save 30% plus on time, in fact i have a 9 frame electric radial - uncapping used to be the pinch point - no more. I need a bigger extractor I can uncap faster than i can spin out now.

As i run mainly on 9/10 frame boxes a sharp eyed person may see it just has two bands on this i am finding works well. Will use three for my 11 frame boxes.

I did though make my own support as i have a stainless steel stray it sits on with storage after uncapping pre spinning over a heated pratly tray. See pic for set up - stand is tall enough to handle brood frames as well. Needs to be clamped down as when you pull the frame up the unit grips it.

Just as a balance to Polymath’s post, a friend of mine and I both tried the uncapper independently recently and both decided it was not for us.
We were both disappointed with the amount of honey left in the frames after extracting ( I would estimate about 10%) but what disappointed me most was the amount of damage done to the comb especially if you put it through a second time to try to overcome the problem with honey left in the comb.
When cutting into the comb the blades slice deep and due to the action of the honey being forced out of the slits during extraction, the cells become distorted.
We both found it no quicker than using a knife and the small fragments of wax caused by the damage soon clogged our course filters.
As I said at the start, it’s not a gadget I’d invest in but Martin assures me he’s making improvements so we shall see in the future.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the amount of honey left in the frames after extracting

I'd guess that an extractor with a bigger radius would exert greater centrifugal force and would clear out more honey.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I'd guess that an extractor with a bigger radius would exert greater centrifugal force and would clear out more honey.

No, it’s the fact that the uncapper doesn’t open some cells around the perimeter and low areas. Extra force would not extract from these sealed cells.
You can either push it through again to try to ensure these cells are sliced or use a fork. This is the main reason the knife was just as fast.

 

[blackcloud]

And if it were down to centrifugal force many folk will have a machine that can fit through doorways and cannot go any bigger

 

[ericbeaumont]

the uncapper doesn’t open some cells around the perimeter and low areas

Fair enough, and Martin will surely address those issues. I had an idea that flexible or sectioned shafts, rather than solid shafts, might accomodate the hills and valleys.

main reason the knife was just as fast

Yes, the work must be efficient to be fast, but even a knife will not deal with all dips, which must then be forked. Consider also the displacement of labour: a knife may be quicker but work to process cappings and wax must be taken into account. The uncapper appears to do away with most of that part of the job.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Fair enough, and Martin will surely address those issues. I had an idea that flexible or sectioned shafts, rather than solid shafts, might accomodate the hills and valleys.


Yes, the work must be efficient to be fast, but even a knife will not deal with all dips, which must then be forked. Consider also the displacement of labour: a knife may be quicker but work to process cappings and wax must be taken into account. The uncapper appears to do away with most of that part of the job.

I think the idea of a flexible shaft is brilliant but I’m not sure whether it would assert enough pressure to slice the wax?
Obviously after using the uncapper you are still left with the “hills” and need to use a knife to straighten the comb.

I take your point re. processing cappings which can be a pain without a press but I just leave mine to drain the honey then plonk it in a solar or steam extractor ready to exchange.
If reducing your wax processing is an important criteria I would suggest buying a hot air gun as it causes no cappings and is significantly cheaper than the uncapper at £299.

 

[polymath]

Taking my lunch break from extracting so thought i would answer some of the points raised.
1 What is the practical difference, if the frames are the same size?
You need to make it deeper to accommodate brood as well as super i.e. when you push down you need the depth.

2 How did you attach the uncapper to the support frame? I can see the frame is clamped to the base unit, but how did you attach the uncapper to the frame?
When it attaches to the plastic box it uses two Number 6 bolts, i drilled 6mm holes through the wood and just bolted it in position.

We were both disappointed with the amount of honey left in the frames after extracting ( I would estimate about 10%)
Not sure i agree on this statement i had a few frames with some honey left in, not sure any more than normal. A friend is going to do another test but to be honest as the frames are going back to the bees if they get a little extra honey not worried, more for winter stores. As i take off all the supers if they get a small extra amount extra back fine. But think it is if at all or marginal.

but what disappointed me most was the amount of damage done to the comb especially if you put it through a second time to try to overcome the problem with honey left in the comb.
I did a test on this and again just now with Roger. We took a frame and cut half of it clear with a knife flat to the frame and half left then put through the machine then extracted. Now the half which just went through the machine sure messed up with the blades but it goes no deeper or not much than you would with a knife so even if the bees clean that all up no loss. It will though be interesting when i put them back on the hive if the bees discard the wax or use it to clean up, will put boards on to check.

small fragments of wax caused by the damage soon clogged our course filters
Again i run a course and fine filter settling tank after 20 boxes i cleaned off the course filter no worse than normal and not a long job just scraped it onto heated pratly tray.


it’s the fact that the uncapper doesn’t open some cells around the perimeter and low areas.
Agree on this, found i just did those with a fork quickly, nothing is ever perfect but quicker than by hand for me.

If reducing your wax processing is an important criteria I would suggest buying a hot air gun as it causes no cappings and is significantly cheaper than the uncapper at £299.
My preferred method, but when i compare the two i get more honey out by far using the roller.

Had a visitor today to see it for himself

 

[Newbeeneil]

I’ll be interested in Roger’s appraisal next time I see him.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Polymath, and good to see photos of Roger at work. Did he have suggestions to improve the design? For those late to the scene, Roger Patterson is an engineer who has kept bees (at one time, professionally) for well over 50 years.