The Effectiveness of OA Vaping

[bingevader]

I flinched when a member of our committee at our association suggest we should do a talk on ‘treat or not to treat’. Just treat and save time on the debate. Leave no treatment to beekeepers who have the time and skills to look at uncapping rates under the microscope.

I'd love to go treatment free. Sadly, I am surrounded by treaters who flinch at the suggestion of having the debate.

 

[Antipodes]

Do you guys in the UK get a brood break? Does it depend on whether you are on the coast (or around the South East) or up in colder areas of the midlands or Scotland?

Do you use more than the one gram of the acid (see article below)? The conclusion is in the "Discussion" at the end of the article.

https://academic.oup.com/jinsectsci...LlbsaY0YKKSe9IrRJqFp2LDAPyf25DdVg&login=false

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd love to go treatment free. Sadly, I am surrounded by treaters who flinch at the suggestion of having the debate.

Why do you need to debate
Just try it

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you guys in the UK get a brood break? Does it depend on whether you are on the coast (or around the South East) or up in colder areas of the midlands or Scotland?

Do you use more than the one gram of the acid (see article below)? The conclusion is in the "Discussion" at the end of the article.

https://academic.oup.com/jinsectsci...LlbsaY0YKKSe9IrRJqFp2LDAPyf25DdVg&login=false

I do but not for long, maybe six weeks tops and even that may be an over estimate. Anybody else know?
OAV 2.5 to 3g

 

[The Poot]

Brood breaks are very short here, last Winter, not one at all I thought. But I may be wrong.
I use 2.0 g (ish) of OA on double brood colonies, though it’s very arbitrary I just fill the Varrox pan and lightly tap it down…..

 

[mbc]

I do but not for long, maybe six weeks tops and even that may be an over estimate. Anybody else know?
OAV 2.5 to 3g

Its as long as the proverbial piece of string, more to do with queen age/colony development than calendar date in my experience, not that I've ever opened more than a dozen or so between November and February over the last twenty odd years.

 

[Skinfaxi]

Cage your queen 25 days , then vape
I just vaped mine twice and brood less in a dearth. Amitraz for me is useless. One or two mites drop. Then vape and loads drop.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you use more than the one gram of the acid

yes, extensive research work by LASI a few years ago found that the optimum amount of OA (regardless of hive size) needed is 2.4 grams

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I have today vaped five plus one that has Apivar strips. Will report tomorrow

 

[bingevader]

Why do you need to debate
Just try it

I have a list! But I will try and make it brief.
I only have a few hives, I couldn't afford any loss whilst trying to select for a more resistant/hygienic strain.
Unless I kept buying in new resistant/hygienic queens, my attempts to select (and then maintain any strain) would be dependent on the gene pool of the drones of the surrounding area.
As I said originally, no thirst or desire for treatment free to happen around here, just flinching, so I would be back to square one in just a few seasons (just one if my swarm prevention fails!).

 

[Hachi]

Bob Binnie and the Uni of Georgia suggest OA at 4 grams per single BB is ok. Link here if not seen it already:

 

[elainemary]

I have a list! But I will try and make it brief.
I only have a few hives, I couldn't afford any loss whilst trying to select for a more resistant/hygienic strain.
Unless I kept buying in new resistant/hygienic queens, my attempts to select (and then maintain any strain) would be dependent on the gene pool of the drones of the surrounding area.
As I said originally, no thirst or desire for treatment free to happen around here, just flinching, so I would be back to square one in just a few seasons (just one if my swarm prevention fails!).

That’s the key issue - everyone would have to stop treating and be prepared to lose colonies in order to only allow resistant queens and drones to survive. From what I’ve read it’s v complex with many genes involved and still not fully understood, so as soon as mating happens it’s v difficult to sustain. Especially if you’re in a densely populated area with lots of beekeepers. I’ve tried myself to not treat when drops are low to then find a mite bomb the following season. Hence why the flinching!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I have today vaped five plus one that has Apivar strips. Will report tomorrow

Drops around a hundred in all colonies plus around twenty from the one with Apivar in.

 

[Do224]

And again shortly after that.

Arbitrary is a much maligned word but in this scenario it is a truly beautiful one.
Did mine again today not even bothering with boards.

Do you leave the OMF open when vaping? I’ve been wondering if it’s necessary to block it

 

[blackcloud]

Prepare for a big row!
I put the tray in for a day after the treatment if I'm actually interested in the drop,which I rarely am.
Tray is then cleaned and returned to the shed for the mice to defocate on until the next treatment.
It serves no other purpose for me
I should add that I vape through the side of a perspex topped eke placed on the brood box rather than through the floor entrance so it might be different for other folk.
My view is that the vapour cools and drops down onto the bees rather than down through the floor especially now the cooler weather has begun

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you leave the OMF open when vaping? I’ve been wondering if it’s necessary to block it

I do whether vaping from top or just above the OMF. If vaping from the top I leave the entrance open

 

[elainemary]

Prepare for a big row!
I put the tray in for a day after the treatment if I'm actually interested in the drop,which I rarely am.
Tray is then cleaned and returned to the shed for the mice to defocate on until the next treatment.
It serves no other purpose for me
I should add that I vape through the side of a perspex topped eke placed on the brood box rather than through the floor entrance so it might be different for other folk.
My view is that the vapour cools and drops down onto the bees rather than down through the floor especially now the cooler weather has begun

I’m coming to a similar conclusion. I still monitor ad hoc especially if a colony hasn’t swarmed that season or had a brood break.

I have a new apiary site this year and wanted to know what the varroa loads were like, so I monitored in spring, no issues. Again July no issues. Then I spotted some shaking bees in one of the hives - not CBPV, but suspected varroa related eg slow or a acute paralysis virus. So put a slider in and around 50 mites dropped in a couple of days. Took honey off that apiary and got on with treatment (Apivar) of all colonies and here’s the boards after 5 days of treatment.
Shows can’t rely on board drops anyway, as one with high drops was low pre treatment !

These colonies are in a town with a high density of beekeepers, some are natural beekeepers and there is knowledge of feral colonies in old buildings.

3 of these colonies had brood breaks and the biggest drop was from a colony that was queenless and brood less late June and I dribbled OA - the one with the shaking bees in august. So has picked up a mite bomb from elsewhere, given the timescales.

So like you @blackcloud i will ad hoc monitor when I suspect an issue and treat all colonies in an apiary

 

[pargyle]

Well ... I'm now in year 12 of TF... don't have any varroa related losses .. indeed, for the last three years I've not lost any colonies and prior to that - never to Varroa issues.

I don't recommend going TF to anyone - but if you do then the key is proper varroa testing - sugar rolls on a regular basis. I'm convinced that some colonies do cope with some levels of varroa but I also think that it is also related to the foraging area. If there is interaction with colonies in the area that have heavy varroa loads then the chances of remaining TF are limited.

I took over two colonies from a member on here that had been infested to a massive level in the apiary where they were sited - they got well vaped when they arrived so I knew the mite load was low and over the season they have been fitted in to my methods ... so far, they are as low in mite numbers as my other colonies. No signs of varroa related disease whereas they had DWV in evidence where they were ... is it location combined with other factors ?

Who knows ... but regular sugar rolls will give you a true indication of mite levels and if they are low - do you really need to treat ? There's always a case for treating regardless but it's a harder case to justify being TF. (and frankly it's a harder path to follow).

 

[Hachi]

@elainemary I'm not familiar with the term "mite bomb" would you explain please or perhaps a link?

 

[Smudger55]

Ahhhh They look far too good to eat!

Then don’t ,sing to them