tangential extractor

[mark s]

hi all

Just been given a 4 frame tangential extractor and thought id give it a try(saving up for a mann lake) so the question is how do u load it lugs inboard or outboard ?? i know ive got too turn the frames to extract other side so does it matter which way they go in ???.
If you reply thank you.

 

[Batcher]

Mark. You need to load it with the top bars against the edge. And remember when you spin, it must be that the top bars are being pushed against the edge. I.E. bottom bars going forwards, or you will force the frames out. Hope this helps... Roll on my radial extractor...
Craig

 

[Hachi]

ordered a 9 frame radial last Friday should be here this week. Happy days

 

[enrico]

Mark, batcher has confused things. A tangential extractor takes the frames flat to the sides. It matters not if the top bar faces front or back but try and put them all the same way so that when you turn them you can see which you have not done! Or if you have missed one. Turn a couple of times at least. A radial extractor takes the top bars to the outside like the spokes of a bike wheel
Hope this helps
E

 

[enrico]

ordered a 9 frame radial last Friday should be here this week. Happy days

Hachi, just a tip, you have to turn a radial for far longer as the honey has to move from the bottom cells all the way to the top bar before leaving the frame, if you can afford a motor it is so much easier!
E

 

[mark s]

Thanks for your help guys

 

[oliver90owner]

Enrico,

I think you are -----------.

Frames are directional in a tangential with the top bar trailing, to present a more equal force on the wax comb. The wax is always joined to the top bars, not necessarily the same at the other end. Also the cells are at a slight angle upwards towards the top bar, so that helps extraction too.

I only tangentially extract 14 x 12s, which are about the most likely to get damaged without care.

Also I fail to undestand how honey has to move further in either format - the honey from the bottom of the cells has to leave via the cappings end in both cases. Once it is out, it is out. Doesn't go back into other cells. Doesn't take long to be hitting the side of the extractor drum once it hs left the cells. The time saving is the number of frames at a time (for most hobby machines) and not needing to turn the frames twice. There will be a difference in rotational speed from inner cells to the ones adjacent to the top bar for a radial, but I've never found it a problem.

 

[enrico]

RAB, I bow to your greater knowledge. I have never had a problem using a tangential, as I didn't realise there was a 'proper' way I have used it the 'wrong ' way but never had a problem at all! However, I have learnt something from you, oh great one, and know for the future. Thanks
As for the radial, my point was that, as the honey is spun out of the cells nearest the bottom bars it clings to the face of the frame as it is spun outwards towards the top bar. Therefore it takes a while to reach the top bar and eventually the wall. In a tangential, the moment it leaves the cell it is in on the wall and therefore in my experience, and I use both, tangential for brood size frames, I have to spin for lots longer in a radial!
Thanks for bringing all those facts to my attention
E ( or -------- as you called me! )

 

[itma]

I have a radial, with the optional tangential screens to permit extracting 14x12 frames.

I certainly can't say that I've noticed it taking longer when used radially. Rather the reverse actually …


Something that no-one has mentioned yet is that if you are trying to extract heather honey, you'll stand more chance of success with a tangential - which is why commercial heather honey types buy those fancy tangentials that automatically turn the frames round to extract the other side when you reverse the direction of rotation. (Which may be what has misled some into thinking that rotation direction 'needs' to be reversed with ordinary fixed-frame extractors …)

 

[enrico]

Enrico,

I think you are -----------.

Frames are directional in a tangential with the top bar trailing, to present a more equal force on the wax comb. The wax is always joined to the top bars, not necessarily the same at the other end. Also the cells are at a slight angle upwards towards the top bar, so that helps extraction too.
.

The more I think about this the more I think that it can hardly make a difference! The force is outwards, the frame has one side outwards, centrifugal force throws the honey straight out of the cells. Why would it throw it towards the trailing top bar? If you were on a kids roundabout going too fast your legs would stick out at right angles to the centre not at an angle backwards. I humbly suggest your facts make little difference! Unless spinning really slowly!
E

 

[VEG]

The cells are angled up toward the top bar

 

[BeeJayBee]

The more I think about this the more I think that it can hardly make a difference! The force is outwards, the frame has one side outwards, centrifugal force throws the honey straight out of the cells. Why would it throw it towards the trailing top bar?

The cells are angled up toward the top bar

The force is at a tangent, hence the name

If you put the top bar as the leading edge, you'll be pushing the honey into the cells rather than pulling it outwards.

The honey on the inner face of the frame is also pushed outwards, and can even be forced through the midrib. That's why over-enthusiasm when extracting the first side sometimes causes the comb to collapse.

 

[itma]

The force is at a tangent, hence the name

...

NO.



Whether your centrifugal extractor mounts the frames radially or tangentially, at constant rotational speed, the apparent force remains centrifugal, directly away from the centre - ie along a radius - at right angles to a tangent!

 

[enrico]

NO.



Whether your centrifugal extractor mounts the frames radially or tangentially, at constant rotational speed, the apparent force remains centrifugal, directly away from the centre - ie along a radius - at right angles to a tangent!

Oh itma.......you are my hero......I love you forever
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well, I agre with Enrico on this one, I've been using a tangenital extractor the last few years and it doesn't matter a damn the four frame tangenital haas two pairs of frames sitting 'side by side' the direction of the 'spin' (clockwise or anti) all depends on which way the frames start moving when I start and sometives I will change direction half way through if my arm gets tired. Neven had a problem with extracting.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

NO.







Whether your centrifugal extractor mounts the frames radially or tangentially, at constant rotational speed, the apparent force remains centrifugal, directly away from the centre - ie along a radius - at right angles to a tangent!

There is no such thing as cetrifugal force; it is "notional" or "fictitious"and arises from inertia; the tendency of [honey] to move in a straight line. So when it leaves it leaves in its direction of motion, which is tangential. In a radial extractor it has a good chance of being overtaken by its own frame ( front face) or the next (back face).

Just sayin'.
<ADD>
so in a tangential extractor you want the frames travelling bottom-first for easiest extraction. The comb is turning and the honey wants to keep going: bottom first the angle helps the comb peel off. I think this is what beejoyful was saying.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm bull$hitting too. Bit of fun. <ADD>

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Centrifugal, centripetal or whatever - all I know is it works whichever way the top bars are pointin

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It sounds as though there is some confusion about radial and tangential extractors. In my simple understanding rotating the mechanism produces a force which tries to throw matter outwards from the centre. The frames go into a RADIAL extractor like spokes in a wheel ie they radiate outwards from the centre Because of the slope of the cells in the comb maximum effect of honey removal requires the top bars to be outwards around the rim of the rotating part. This type of extractor does not require frames to be inverted during extraction.
A TANGENTIAL extractor holds the frames with the flat sides tangential to the rim of the rotating part (or the circle this follows). This requires the frames to be spun to empty the honey from the outer side of the comb, then the frames are turned(inverted) so the inner side becomes the outer side and the process repeated. Because the forces involved and the limited strength of the comb/foundation can wreck the comb it is best to spin gently on one side to remove "some" of the honey, then turn over and repeat to take half the honey from the other side. Having done this repeat but spinning slightly quicker to extract the rest of the honey from both sides.
Practice will enable the optimum speed of rotation to be found but its surprisingly slow if you are thinking industrial centrifuges
Not trying to teach granny to suck eggs but there do seem to be some misapprehensions floating around.