Swarms - how long to form?

[SimonB]

14x12 BB
One super - 3-4 frames partly filled
April 2011 emergency queen

I inspected on Sunday in a brief period of reasonable weather, so made it quite quick. Little activity so guessed that most workers were at home. Bees covering all 11 frames. 7-8 frames with brood. One frame in the centre had little brood, but I did spot eggs. There did appear to be less brood than when I inspected a week earlier. Did not spot the queen, never have, she is not marked. Some play cups, all appeared empty, but tore down one that I could not see into.

Today at about 2.30pm I looked outside, we were having a brief spell of sunshine. Lots of activity around the hive, hundred flying bees at least. I put this down to usual mid afternoon orientation flights, or just taking the opportunity to get some sun. Over a period of about 10 minutes the numbers of flyers seem to increase. I can not see the entrance from the house, so popped out and saw about another hundred bees lingering around the entrance. Watched for a few minutes and numbers did not seem to be increasing.

Came inside with the intention of gearing up to put a hive together in case they did go and I could catch them. Looked out of the window about 2 minutes later and no activity whatsoever.

I have never seen a swarm leave. How long roughly will a swarm take to form, and once they go, do any linger or could they have gone and disappeared in those two minutes?

About ten minutes later we had a downpour, so if they did go I do hope they found somewhere sheltered, but sincerely hope they haven't. This would be 2 years running, got caught out last year with early spring, overfeeding and rapid build up.

This year I felt I had been proactive. I understood that swarms will only leave when queen cells are sealed, which is at 8 days is it not. Might they leave earlier?

Once it clears up and the temps increase a little (if ever) I will take a look, however either way there's not much I can do.

Any thoughts - does it sound like they have swarmed, or really can't tell?

 

[SimonB]

Sun's come out again, so popped out for a quick look. There are workers still coming and going - do all the flying bees leave with a swarm, or might this be a good sign that they haven't left?

 

[newportbuzz]

they could have just been dodging the rain. i have seen my ones doing it. sometimes they will be a huge influx in number of bees flying in and hanging around then it all goes quiet and about 5 mins later it rains.

Cant comment on how long the swarm takes to form but dr seely says they usualy hang about for about a day or two before moving to the new site. also usualy pitch up within about 35 meters or hive if i rember.


i have seen a swarm go and i can tell you its not easy to mistake. but they never settled as i had the queen cliped and i caught her.

hope this helps

 

[For want of a better word]

What do you mean by "emergency queen"? was she clipped?
What type of bee?

How close did you look for queen cells ( look at Welsh beeks site for excellent pages on this)

If they have swarmed, and there are eggs the remaining bees will make up a superceedure queen... possibly best to feed and let alone until you see pollen coming in...
don't despair... every time I look around they get up to something new...embrace the chaos!

 

[oliver90owner]

You do not seem to understand the swarming procedure.

They do not swarm and leave for the new home all in one action. They cluster as a swarm after leaving the hive.

 

[drstitson]

just bees taking advantage of sunny spell. remember with a sustained period of rain you'll have loads of bees needing to make orientation flights. on good days you should be seeing loads of bees around front of hive in early afternoon (12-2).

 

[enrico]

just flying. Be glad you have that many..... Happens when the sun came out at last but then there they are .......gone!!

 

[SimonB]

Thanks for all the reassuring replies, they did the same thing today, but not so many bees. Although my 2nd Spring, I've never had this sized colony before.

Quick inspection today in a sunny spell, all still there it seems, however several eggs in play cups. I know I need to AS them, but just not the weather to go queen hunting, so knocked them back. Just now need to keep a very close eye on them. Have asked my original mentor whether he can come to help me find the queen and mark her.

RAB - I thought I had an understanding of the swarming process, but as said never seen one. What I wasn't sure of was whether once they cluster, which could be out of sight, do many flying bees remain around the hive, or within a few minutes they have left the hive and clustered?

 

[drstitson]

don't need to find queen to AS - just shake/brush all bees into new bottom box, add QE and box of brood on top. a couple of hours later house bees will be upstairs and HM will be downstairs with the foundation. You can then divide the two halves as per normal.

 

[enrico]

Dritson, that's the first time I have ever heard of doing it like that...... It seems so simple why do we bother with any other way? Or am I being stupid in thinking that is too easy?
E

 

[Moggs]

Enrico - it's easy, but not as convenient a process compared to that when the queen can be found. Mid-brood area, drop on the queen (maybe), pop into matchbox, AS, reintroduce queen, close up. 10 minutes.

 

[SimonB]

DrStitson - does it not over stress the bees, risk damaging the queen and possibly allow the brood to chill?

I have brushed off all bees before and they weren't too happy about it. Can this be considered a reasonable proposition for an AS, or a very last resort?

 

[drstitson]

yes it will stress bees and chill brood (potentially). But so will taking 1hr to find queen, frame by frame!!!!!

best is to find queen and place her in new box (+/- frame of brood) but if needs must - get the job done without panic.

sure the experts will be along soon!!!

 

[SimonB]

DrS, thanks for the earlier reply. If using the 'queen not found' method would you transfer a) a frame of brood and/or b) stores. Or better to feed them instead?

If the weather holds tomorrow morning I intend inspecting them and will A/S them if there is a need to, which I suspect there will be based on what I found last time.

Thanks
Simon