Swarms don`t like a hive

[Bwthynbach]

I have "caught" 4 swarms this year all of which have included a queen. All have been placed in a "nuc box" alongside an empty hive for 24/48 hours and all seems well. Upon introduction to the adjacent hive all 4 have subsequently swarmed again.Several methods of introduction have been tried including "walking them in" "shaking them" and lastly introducing them to the hive on partly built comb and still they have gone. Has anybody come across a hive that no bee likes and if so what was the solution.

 

[VEG]

change the hive?
Put a frame of open brood in with the swarm and put a queen excluder on for a day or two

 

[REDWOOD]

Hive to big for a swarm

 

[tonybloke]

transfer them straight away, not left for a couple of days.

 

[Mike a]

Cast swarms are very picky where they set up home I found this year, never lost a swarm I've collected until this year despite using the same gear, even cleaning the nuc thoroughly made no difference.

Only suggestion I can think of is the full size hive is/was too big for them, let the next swarm build up and feel confined at least until the queen is mated (if reqd) and laying a good frame of eggs and they are collecting stores before transferring them to your full hive.

Ideally they shouldn't abscond from brood but as I've already said this year has been difference to previous years as far as I'm concerned.

24 collected
5 absconded within 48 hours
4 drone layers

 

[beeno]

Hi,
I am a newbie. My hypothesis is that many swarms this year are casts and some of them mate with their own therefore they like to take off again or sit around in a bush for some days until the deed is done. The QE stops them from doing this until they settle. A video of bee farmers in Germany shut their cast in for 3 days, so maybe it is to do with them being cast rather than the hive??? We can't but wonder.

 

[itma]

transfer them straight away, not left for a couple of days.

... or leave them in the nuc until they are properly settled with some brood - a week or more. That seems to work for me, using 14x12s.
However, I'm also keen on immediately giving them just one (at least part-) drawn frame, and on day 2 plenty food.
When I move them into a full-sized hive, I don't throw a full box of foundation at them (I dummy down, just adding a couple of frames at a time), although with an ordinary National it might be fine to fill the rest of the box with foundation.

And both nuc and hive have rather small entrances (at least) until things get normalised (maybe longer!)
Some people say to put in the inspection board to make the hive interior as dark as possible.

Of course, having a see-through crownboard allows you to see how they are going on a daily basis, without disturbing the bees particularly. Look but don't touch too often!

 

[Polyanwood]

Swarms don't like OMFs. Put the insert in for a while when you hive a swarm.

 

[Alan and Anthea]

Hi
We had this with a swarm ealier this year; the swarm was caught up in a skep and put into a new hive and they left it within 30 mins and swarmed again. We caught the swarm 2nd time and put them back in the same hive and they left again this time congregating on the hive they had initially swarmed from; I watched as the bees then gradually started to go back into their original hive which took about 35 minutes and as the numbers got fewer i saw the virgin queen surrounded by bees who gradually left her and went back into the original hive, when down to about 20 bees and queen she flew off.
Not sure why this happened and we wondered about the hive; however 2 weeks later we caught a different swarm and introduced it to the same hive as before and they took to it right away so to us it seemed to be down to the bees behaviour rather than any problem with the hive.
Alan

 

[Andy Duff]

... or leave them in the nuc until they are properly settled with some brood - a week or more. That seems to work for me, using 14x12s.
However, I'm also keen on immediately giving them just one (at least part-) drawn frame, and on day 2 plenty food.
When I move them into a full-sized hive, I don't throw a full box of foundation at them (I dummy down, just adding a couple of frames at a time), although with an ordinary National it might be fine to fill the rest of the box with foundation.

And both nuc and hive have rather small entrances (at least) until things get normalised (maybe longer!)
Some people say to put in the inspection board to make the hive interior as dark as possible.

Of course, having a see-through crownboard allows you to see how they are going on a daily basis, without disturbing the bees particularly. Look but don't touch too often!

Gets my vote, it's what we do and we have never had a swarm go walkabout

 

[user 6228]

mimic the conditions in T Seeley's experiments to get his results

 

[Bwthynbach]

Thanks for the info. "if " I get another swarm I will leave them in the nuc for longer, reduce the entrance and add a Q/E untill they are settled. after that it`s concrete wellies on all of them or "Evostik" on their feet

 

[user 6228]

Thanks for the info. "if " I get another swarm I will leave them in the nuc for longer, reduce the entrance and add a Q/E untill they are settled. after that it`s concrete wellies on all of them or "Evostik" on their feet

the research indicates:

• use a 40L hive ASAP,
• keep the bottom of the hive dark.
• keep entrance under 20 sq cm
• entrance at bottom
• south facing.
• Elevated

The more of these factors the more votes from the bees to stay

 

[drex]

DerekM.

I think Tom seeley was talking about the best hives to attract a swarm ( Bait hives) rather than the best box to put them in when hiving.

I think the most important thing is not to fiddle with them
too much, and give them time to settle.

 

[user 6228]

DerekM.

I think Tom seeley was talking about the best hives to attract a swarm ( Bait hives) rather than the best box to put them in when hiving.

I think the most important thing is not to fiddle with them
too much, and give them time to settle.

His research is on the decision making in a swarm... You need to get them to finalise their decision and stop being a swarm, by making any restart of the voting have your hive the winner.

 

[MegaLot Bees]

Swarms don't like hive

I'm buddy new beekeeper our 1st season.
Ref this issue. - more details, hive is 2nd hand WBC, clean I re-painted externally but left 2 weeks before use. Cut out floor to put in varoa mesh, old/used brood box but torched clean, frames & foundation all new, constructed roof from cut down lift, using flake board & aluminium sheet with vents & mesh.
Adjacent 1st hive running smoothly but very slow build up.
Any more answers?