swarm

[LNH]

Just found Q cells with larvae, in my national hive, but not capped yet,unable to do anything tonight due to commitments. Tomorrow i hope to a/s. Have a 6frame nuc (not ideal but ...) from maisemore which i intend to put Q into along with a frame of brood, ensuring no Qcells on this frame.With new foundation on other 5 frames. Shake couple of frames of bees from hive into nuc. Leave just two Q cells remaining in the hive, is my plan and then leave for 14 or so days. Do you think this a reasonable plan? There is an almost full super on the hive but the honey not capped as yet. Any advice is welcome
Colin

 

[testka]

Hi. I would leave only one unsealed cell marked on the frame with a drawing pin, Especially as you will have the old queen as backup. Maybe better to check again in four days and destroy any new queen cells created. O yeah also do it early tomorrow in case tomorrow is the day they decided to swarm. Good luck.

 

[LNH]

Thanks Testka, good advice and i did expect to hear about only leaving one cell and i am inclined to agree with you and i think the majority

 

[jonnybeegood]

Thanks Testka, good advice and i did expect to hear about only leaving one cell and i am inclined to agree with you and i think the majority

From what ive been reading if you left two when one hatches it may well fly off with a cast knowing the hive will still have a Q there.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi. I would leave only one unsealed cell marked on the frame with a drawing pin, Especially as you will have the old queen as backup. Maybe better to check again in four days and destroy any new queen cells created. O yeah also do it early tomorrow in case tomorrow is the day they decided to swarm. Good luck.

Also check the nuc with the queen in three or four days for new QC's. I assume you're keeping the nuc near to the original hive? you need the flying bees to go back to the Q- hive

 

[LNH]

Thanks all. Carried out yesterday,just in time i think. Left just the one cell in the hive and have arranged to check the nuc on wed. Hopefully all going to "plan" mine not the bees

 

[snelgrove]

Taking the queen off in a nuc dosnt satisfy the Swarming impulse in most cases. I find the bees in the parent colony become listless. Far better do a shook swarm

 

[dexter's shed]

intend to put Q into along with a frame of brood,

so what part of the country are you in, as I've never seen a swarm that takes brood along for the ride
you cannot call it an artificial swarm if it's not

 

[Erichalfbee]

Splitting hairs, really.
No not an AS but making a nucleus with the queen, a frame of largely sealed brood a frame of food and extra bees is a recognised form of swarm control.
He's done OK

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Splitting hairs, really.
No not an AS but making a nucleus with the queen, a frame of largely sealed brood a frame of food and extra bees is a recognised form of swarm control.
He's done OK

at no time did the OP call it an A/S

 

[itma]

Coming late to this, sorry.

I wouldn't put 5 frames of foundation in with Q and her frame.
Better a frame of stores (no foragers bringing anything in) and another frame with some (open?) stores and some space. And a dummy board outside the stores frame ...
And reduce the entrance to a single bee-way (pin the disc to hold it exactly) to reduce the risk of them being robbed out. Its only a tiny colony.

You could try a frame of foundation in the old hive, but without a laying Q, they won't be particularly motivated to do anything about it. But bees are bees, so, worth a try.

ADDED just leave one large well-filled open QC. Brush bees off that frame and shake off all the other frames to check thoroughly that you haven't missed ANY other QC.
And check back in exactly a week's time - 8 days if you feel lucky - and regardless of the weather, to knock down the new ones that they will have built - again repeating the brushing/shaking full visibility check.
Miss one either time and you risk losing bees in a swarm.
If your chosen cell is open at the start, it shouldn't have emerged after another 7 days (8 days is pushing it if your open cell was near to being sealed). But 7 days after Q is removed is too late for them to start a third flush of QCs (no remaining young enough larvae) - so, if you spotted them all, you will be safe.

 

[dexter's shed]

Tomorrow i hope to a/s.

at no time did the OP call it an A/S

no, really

 

[Obee1]

sounds like a plan.

 

[MuswellMetro]

From what ive been reading if you left two when one hatches it may well fly off with a cast knowing the hive will still have a Q there.

Virgin queens will only kill similar aged queen in their cells .so if you leave cells of varying ages the younder queen is not killed and you get a caste swarm

i leave open two cells of the same age either on nearbye frames or the same frame and cull anything else at day 4 and 7

 

[jonnybeegood]

Virgin queens will only kill similar aged queen in their cells .so if you leave cells of varying ages the younder queen is not killed and you get a caste swarm

i leave open two cells of the same age either on nearbye frames or the same frame and cull anything else at day 4 and 7

Ah ok, thats why i have one hive with Qc's of differing ages that looked like it would swarm & one with same age cells that was superceding, so that isnt likely to swarm hopefully?

 

[Eyeman]

Virgin queens will only kill similar aged queen in their cells .so if you leave cells of varying ages the younder queen is not killed and you get a caste swarm

i leave open two cells of the same age either on nearbye frames or the same frame and cull anything else at day 4 and 7

If you leave 2 cells then you need to reduce the number of forages otherwise they will likely swarm. In this case the foragers are staying with the QC's so I would only leave 1 QC.
The idea that the age of the QC's influences the likelihood of a swarm emerging is interesting. I presume the idea comes from supercedure cells are said to be of a similar age where as swarm cells are different ages.