Swarm varroa treatment

[Loubylou]

A local beek advised me that it is an opportune moment to treat my newly collected swarm with Oxalic acid before they start to make brood. Is this a good idea and therefore a perfect opportunity to monitor varroa infestation?

 

[Finman]

.
It is Very good

 

[Dishmop]

Its not something I do but if I did I think it would be the best time.

 

[itma]

Oxalic Acid is one of the treatments that depends for its effectiveness on there being no sealed brood.

Treating a swarm before they have brood would be an effective treatment.
However, it may well 'unsettle' the swarm at a time when you are hoping they will put down roots rather than abscond.
A swarm shouldn't have much varroa - unless the parent colony had a major problem with the things.

Its not something I do - not least because I don't have any oxalic syrup around at this time of year. (It has a very short 'shelf life'.) If I were an enthusiast for vaporisation, I might be using the kit whenever an opportunity was presented!
As it is, I might give them an icing sugar dusting after a couple of days - when I'd be starting giving syrup. (But I usually forget …)

*Note that icing sugar (just like oxalic) is pretty INEFFECTIVE against varroa - IF there is sealed brood in the colony (which is almost all the time). But you can get rid of some 'phoretic' (riding-on-adult-bee) mites with sugar and a mesh floor, and because the only mites in a swarm are phoretic, its a reasonable time to use the sugar. Doubtless Oxalic would be more effective, and kill rather than merely dislodge the things, but its much more trouble for you and the bees.

 

[drstitson]

"However, it may well 'unsettle' the swarm at a time when you are hoping they will put down roots rather than abscond."

just do it once they have brood to care for but unsealed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

*Note that icing sugar is pretty INEFFECTIVE against varroa - IF there is sealed brood in the colony

Let's be honest it's pretty ineffective full stop - just a placebo to keep the sandal wearers happy

 

[Arfermo]

Icing sugar useless - oxalic on a newly or quite recently captured swarm before significant egg laying has started is by far the best opportunity you are likely to have to keep varroa levels low enough to keep bees multiplying until autumn thymol or MAQS. Your choice. Sublimation ,ost effective oxalic method - see recent BBKA News article by learned professor.

 

[MandF]

"However, it may well 'unsettle' the swarm at a time when you are hoping they will put down roots rather than abscond."

just do it once they have brood to care for but unsealed.

Which, if you bear in mind that a mated queen could take up to a week before she starts laying, and a virgin queen up to 3 weeks, means there is no rush to treat!

Just check the swarm every few days for eggs, then when you see some it is safer to treat with oxalic.

 

[itma]

Let's be honest it's pretty ineffective full stop - just a placebo to keep the sandal wearers happy

Actually, Emyr, in the COLOSS "Bee Book" dusting with icing sugar is one recommended methodology for obtaining live varroa for experimentation. http://www.coloss.org/beebook/II/varroa/3/1/2

Pros: fast and allows for several hundreds of mites to be collected in short time. …

However, because the majority of mites are *usually* sheltered in sealed brood cells, it is indeed *usually* ineffective.

/// Just imagining you shopping for appropriate sandals for your TBH presentation …

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

in the COLOSS "Bee Book" dusting with icing sugar is one recommended methodology for obtaining live varroa for experimentation.

But they were describing buggering about with a cupful of bees in a jamjar then patting them down with kitchen paper - a far cry from sprinkling a little sugar over a newly caught swarm - if you followed their methodology they would be a prime contenders for absconding

 

[pargyle]

Personally, If you have a mesh floor, I would check for natural mite drop before you do anything.

My swarm arrived last June and I dusted them with icing sugar when I hived them ... got a drop of less than a handful of varroa afterwards, I have monitored mite levels in the hive ever since ... didn't find any varroa at all last season (not just from daily floor checks . Drone cell uncapping, sugar rolls & alcohol washes all revealed NIL mites).

Got a few mites this season but it peaked at about 40 a day drop about a week before the hive swarmed and it's now down to single figures again and some days nothing. Uncapped a few drone cells last week (about 30 cells) found 1 cell with a single mite in it.

My bees have not been treated but I'm not suggesting that this is what you should do ... but what I am saying is that you may well find that, with a bit of luck, there are not enough mites on them to worry about at present ... but you need to investigate to be sure once they start growing as a colony.

As for icing sugar ... I'm with ITMA .. I've got one foot in the sandals and I think it does no harm, it does move some of the phoretic mites and it encourages the bees to groom which is all good in my book. But use it with the inspection board in and inspect the drop after you've done it ...

 

[Loubylou]

Thank you for all your advice. I think I will dust with icing sugar and check inspection board for mite drop as this seems the acceptable general opinion.

 

[pargyle]

Thank you for all your advice. I think I will dust with icing sugar and check inspection board for mite drop as this seems the acceptable general opinion.

I'll send you the link for the sandals if you want to invest >

 

[itma]

But they were describing buggering about with a cupful of bees in a jamjar then patting them down with kitchen paper - a far cry from sprinkling a little sugar over a newly caught swarm - if you followed their methodology they would be a prime contenders for absconding

But you didn't scroll down, did you?

This can also be done using the entire colony fitted with a mesh floor:

1. Remove each frame containing adult bees.

2. Sprinkle with icing sugar so that the frames are all covered.

3. Place back into the colony.

4. Remove the excess icing sugar with the mites from the floor at 10-20 min intervals.

5. Pour over a sieve to remove the sugar and collect the mites.
…

 

[Loubylou]

I'll send you the link for the sandals if you want to invest >

Thank you for that link.....I shall be wearing mostly sandals this week....ouch!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But you didn't scroll down, did you?

Why would I bother

 

[MuswellMetro]

Why would I bother

Rather than wear wellies like they do in the far west or hippy sandals, i go barefoot as I dont like Tan lines on my feet, if you must use Icing sugar on swarm then to have any real effect then it has to be a full icing sugar rolling, shake the bees into the skep and really pour on the icing sugar and coat all the bees, takes them a lot of time to clean up and groom

a quick dusting of icing sugar is no good

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

i go barefoot as I dont like Tan lines on my feet,

I used to but dogsh!t is a bugger for getting out from between your toes.

 

[Dishmop]

if you must use Icing sugar on swarm then to have any real effect then it has to be a full icing sugar rolling, shake the bees into the skep and really pour on the icing sugar and coat all the bees,

bake on gas mark 6 to give a nice crispy caramelised texture..

 

[Ely]

Rather than wear wellies like they do in the far west or hippy sandals, i go barefoot as I dont like Tan lines on my feet, if you must use Icing sugar on swarm then to have any real effect then it has to be a full icing sugar rolling, shake the bees into the skep and really pour on the icing sugar and coat all the bees, takes them a lot of time to clean up and groom

a quick dusting of icing sugar is no good

Seems a lot of stress and bother. Oxalic would be the better option once laying with no capped brood. A lot more affective too. I don't worry about oxalic and I still have big healthy colonies. I don't understand the dislike for oxalic.