Swarm or Supersedure QC’s?

[StephenT]

After yesterday shenanigans, had to inspect Hive 2 to see what was going on there. Single brood and super and last inspected 30/3. Had BIAS inc. eggs although no more and probably less than the last inspection. Plenty of space - empty frames at one end of the hive and not much stores. Didn’t spot the mongrel queen. 7 or 8 QC’s across 6 frames, all on the face of the frame or the top. They look quite different in shape and size from the swarm cells I found yesterday so in my very limited experience I would say supersedure. What do people think?

 

[Swarm]

They are swarm cells.

 

[Boston Bees]

They are swarm cells.

Too many cells for supercedure to be the main candidate IMHO.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes swarm cells.
The position of cells doesn’t indicate their destination.
Supersedure cells are few the same age and often next to each other and at the edge of the brood nest.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

with that many, regardless of where they are, they are swarm cells

 

[StephenT]

Cheers all. Certainly a strange spring for us. Need to provide more space even earlier next time if the weather provides for good early foraging on the cherry\plum trees.

 

[Antipodes]

After yesterday shenanigans, had to inspect Hive 2 to see what was going on there. Single brood and super and last inspected 30/3. Had BIAS inc. eggs although no more and probably less than the last inspection. Plenty of space - empty frames at one end of the hive and not much stores. Didn’t spot the mongrel queen. 7 or 8 QC’s across 6 frames, all on the face of the frame or the top. They look quite different in shape and size from the swarm cells I found yesterday so in my very limited experience I would say supersedure. What do people think?

Stephen, did you look inside the open queen cells?

 

[StephenT]

Stephen, did you look inside the open queen cells?

Yes. All charged.

 

[Heather]

Just look a bit stunty for swarm.. I would expect more time taken to develop them.

 

[pargyle]

Just look a bit stunty for swarm.. I would expect more time taken to develop them.

Yes...more like big play cups... I've seen them practice like this and then tear the cells down and do a proper job a bit later on...also I don't consider them charged until theres a larvae swimming in royal jelly in them ...worth keeping an eye in though as they are up to something !

 

[StephenT]

Just look a bit stunty for swarm.. I would expect more time taken to develop them.

That’s what I thought. The picture below (from another hive yesterday) is more like my beginners view of how a swarm cell looks.

 

[StephenT]

Yes...more like big play cups... I've seen them practice like this and then tear the cells down and do a proper job a bit later on...also I don't consider them charged until theres a larvae swimming in royal jelly in them ...worth keeping an eye in though as they are up to something !

There is royal jelly in them and one is closed.

 

[pargyle]

Then its A/S time now ...not worth waiting, if the one they have capped does have a queen in it then the odds are they are either gone or ready to go... keep the two best queen cells and get on with it !

 

[user 819]

Some of those cells may be larger then they look as they can lay horizontal in the comb before turning down.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Then its A/S time now ...not worth waiting, if the one they have capped does have a queen in it then the odds are they are either gone or ready to go... keep the two best queen cells and get on with it !

Two?

 

[pargyle]

Two?

Nornally I would only leave one but with one that is already capped and no provenance I would be concerned that it may be a dud ... I've opened capped queen cells early in the season that have hung about beyond their emerge date only to find that they have nothing in them ... don't completely understand how this happens ..;. perverse bees ? I'd hate to say just leave the one and find it's a duffer for the OP ...alternatively, I'd take one of the others and pop it in an apidea or a dummied down nuc with some bees as an insurance policy ... with only three hives and this early in the season bit of belt and braces does no harm.

 

[StephenT]

..alternatively, I'd take one of the others and pop it in an apidea or a dummied down nuc with some bees as an insurance policy ... with only three hives and this early in the season bit of belt and braces does no harm.

I plan to use put one QC into a dummied down nuc. Would you use 3 frames - one with the QC, one with brood and another of stores + shake a couple of frames of bees in as well?

 

[pargyle]

I plan to use put one QC into a dummied down nuc. Would you use 3 frames - one with the QC, one with brood and another of stores + shake a couple of frames of bees in as well?

Yes ...that will work ...

 

[Antipodes]

That’s what I thought. The picture below (from another hive yesterday) is more like my beginners view of how a swarm cell looks.

One thing you were asking (in your first post), is why are the queen cells different in size and shape from the swarm cells you saw the other day?
I've only rarely seen (some of ), the cell shapes you have in your hive in your first photo, but will post one photo of them...showing that I've seen similar.

 

[Antipodes]

Here it is.
The cell on the far right and second from right (for instance), are not dissimilar to the cell(s) in photos one and three of your first post.