Swarm or Supersedure QC’s?

[Robert Denny]

Forgive me for jumping into this enlightening thread:
I was inspecting a colony for the first time yesterday, on single brood National hive that has sufficient bees to cover 9 frames and warrant a super (now added). I got the colony last September and the age of the Queen is unknown.
On the 3rd frame in I found a single QC, pictured, with Royal Jelly in the base but could not see an egg.
From then on there was lots of eggs and BIAS in a very good laying pattern and I saw the (unmarked) Queen, which looked large and in good condition. There were 3 more Queen Cups each on the bottom of different frames.
What do you experienced beeks think is going on and what should I do?
Thanks,
Rob

 

[Boston Bees]

Forgive me for jumping into this enlightening thread:
I was inspecting a colony for the first time yesterday, on single brood National hive that has sufficient bees to cover 9 frames and warrant a super (now added). I got the colony last September and the age of the Queen is unknown.
On the 3rd frame in I found a single QC, pictured, with Royal Jelly in the base but could not see an egg.
From then on there was lots of eggs and BIAS in a very good laying pattern and I saw the (unmarked) Queen, which looked large and in good condition. There were 3 more Queen Cups each on the bottom of different frames.
What do you experienced beeks think is going on and what should I do?
Thanks,
Rob

View attachment 25481View attachment 25482

Was there anything in the queen cups?

 

[Robert Denny]

No, we couldn’t see eggs or royal jelly in them.

 

[hemo]

Once RJ is seen the egg is no more but a very small larvae ( likely < 12hrs or so totally enveloped) and very very hard to notice. Likely lack of space is the precursor for them to think about swarming, it could be SS if no more are produced but one can't guarantee a swarm will not occur.
Hold fire leave it a 5-7 days and check again and be prepared to carry out swarm control/splitting.
If brood is laid up on 7 or 8 frames then a super for bee space may not be enough and it is laying space that is needed.
This early if swarm fever is to be suppressed a nucleus made up with the old queen and a couple frames of sealed brood & stores plus combs/foundation, it may be the way ahead until it warms up more.

As with all aspects of advice it is hard to assess from a keyboard and one can only give humble advice.

 

[Robert Denny]

Once RJ is seen the egg is no more but a very small larvae ( likely < 12hrs or so totally enveloped) and very very hard to notice. Likely lack of space is the precursor for them to think about swarming, it could be SS if no more are produced but one can't guarantee a swarm will not occur.
Hold fire leave it a 5-7 days and check again and be prepared to carry out swarm control/splitting.
If brood is laid up on 7 or 8 frames then a super for bee space may not be enough and it is laying space that is needed.
This early if swarm fever is to be suppressed a nucleus made up with the old queen and a couple frames of sealed brood & stores plus combs/foundation, it may be the way ahead until it warms up more.

As with all aspects of advice it is hard to assess from a keyboard and one can only give humble advice.

Thank you, would it be worth taking the QC and Q cups down?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

on single brood National hive that has sufficient bees to cover 9 frames

So do you have bees only sufficient to cover 9 frames, or 9 frames full of brood?

 

[Swarm]

Thank you, would it be worth taking the QC and Q cups down?

You saw the queen and also BIAS, could have torn them down and provided laying space, they are probably congesting the nest.

 

[hemo]

QC are built for a reason, one needs to decide on actions before removing them. As JBM and I have mentioned how many frames are laid up and how much space was also remaining, was it all stores ?

Supering alone may not be enough even if it just gives bees more space to move about, the critical bit is laying space. Though with queen age not known they may be sensing pheromones waning.

 

[hemo]

If laying space is provided they may tear down the QC/s but if not one will need to carry out swarm prevention as once determined they will eventually hide a cell or one will be missed and bye bye.

 

[Robert Denny]

So do you have bees only sufficient to cover 9 frames, or 9 frames full of brood?

9 frames of bees and 5 or 6 frames of brood and I wouldn’t say it was honey bound.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

9 frames of bees and 5 or 6 frames of brood and I wouldn’t say it was honey bound.

I wouldn't say they were ready for a super either

 

[Robert Denny]

Thanks so far.
Ok, to recap:-
It is a swarm cell
They need more space to lay in.
What do I actually do?

 

[StephenT]

Thanks so far.
Ok, to recap:-
It is a swarm cell
They need more space to lay in.
What do I actually do?

https://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/wbka-booklet-english-PDF.pdfHave a read of this. You’ll get more experienced advice from others on here regarding next steps. If you decide that you need to do an artificial swarm, then the nucleus method is probably the simplest if you have a nuc and can find the queen. That method is not in the Wally Shaw document but search on The Apiarist blog as it’s on there.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks so far.
Ok, to recap:-
It is a swarm cell
They need more space to lay in.
What do I actually do?

Buy more hives sorry

 

[Robert Denny]

https://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/wbka-booklet-english-PDF.pdfHave a read of this. You’ll get more experienced advice from others on here regarding next steps. If you decide that you need to do an artificial swarm, then the nucleus method is probably the simplest if you have a nuc and can find the queen. That method is not in the Wally Shaw document but search on The Apiarist blog as it’s on there.

That’s a great link and thanks for the advice. I do have few nucs.