"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[user 20297]

Wait to see for genetic info. Half the picture available at present. Would be cool if it's true but not sure whether there are useful implications are for beekeeping - we tend not to want tiny colonies. Plus are they surviving due to frequent swarming, what counts as a colony surviving given they report hundreds of empty sites as well as the 50-odd they report with bees in, etc.?

I think the "small colony" aspect is a chicken/egg conundrum. As Seeley has observed, regular subdivision by swarming caused by limited space might tend to disrupt varroa reproduction. So, rather than surviving because they have a tendency to have small colonies, maybe they are surviving because naturally occurring nest sites tend to be small., which doesn't facilitate them having large colonies.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

This is a job for . . . . . . BeeBase.

I now (temporarily) have an apiary on the Blenheim Palace grounds (Oxfordshire map ref : SP441160). Number of apiaries within 10km? . . .. . 194

Looks like the Dukes of Marlborough may find it difficult to control the local drone congregation areas.

 

[Ian123]

This is a job for . . . . . . BeeBase.

I now (temporarily) have an apiary on the Blenheim Palace grounds (Oxfordshire map ref : SP441160). Number of apiaries within 10km? . . .. . 194

Looks like the Dukes of Marlborough may find it difficult to control the local drone congregation areas.

Ohhh stop it don’t let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is a job for . . . . . . BeeBase.

I now (temporarily) have an apiary on the Blenheim Palace grounds (Oxfordshire map ref : SP441160). Number of apiaries within 10km? . . .. . 194

Looks like the Dukes of Marlborough may find it difficult to control the local drone congregation areas.

You super sleuth you. Love the thinking

 

[Finman]

LETS LOOK REALISM

400 acre is 1.6 square kilometre =160 ha.
If radius is 1 km, area is 3.14 km2.

Average foraging distance is 2 km
3.14 x 4 = 12 km2 = foraging area. The forest is 10% from that.

50 colonies in the forest. Plus surrounding colonies.

It is clear, that honeydew of oak trees cannot feed hives all the summer. And bees must get pollen from flowers.

It is not take much time to fly outside the forest. It depends how nest hole is situated in the forest. However, location analysis of the secret bee colonies was not correct in the article.

But old oaks offer nest holes, and it is not long distance to foragers fly outside the forest.

So, the oak forest cannot be a reason to offer new unknown ecotype to bees, which devide the genepools from surrounding bees.. The bees basic instinc says, that they must forage in various flower species not only in one type . And they have a short flying trip outside the forest.

If we think 16 hectare rape field, it is not much.
When you put 10 hives on the side of the field, you find the bees forage in the nearest side of the field, but nothing on the opposite side.

Is there any other reason to disconect the small patch from surrounding environment? No, it is not possible.

CONCLUSION: I say that the oak forest is not a reason, that some new subspecies can differientate in that small forest patch. It propably offers much nesting holes to colonies. That is not a reason to differientate from the surrounding genepool of honeybees and from drone mating swarms . Very short distance to bees to fly outside the forest. Under 1 km.

But the story is good.

 

[user 819]

This is a job for . . . . . . BeeBase.

I now (temporarily) have an apiary on the Blenheim Palace grounds (Oxfordshire map ref : SP441160). Number of apiaries within 10km? . . .. . 194

Looks like the Dukes of Marlborough may find it difficult to control the local drone congregation areas.

At least we know they aren't swarms from your very temporary apiary.

 

[user 819]

My guess is that they will be found to be nothing more then local hybrid feral bees that have just happened to find a home to nest in. The fact the bees may e small could be to cavity size so smaller cells maybe are being produced.

Next someone will be claiming they have found a feral group of Robin hoods men in Sherwood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And what if they do find they are Amm? - plenty of beekeepers all over the country now buy Amm queens - and lose swarms!
Proves nuffin

 

[Finman]

My guess is that they will be found to be nothing ore then local hybrid feral bees that have just happened to find a hone to nest in. The fact the bees may e small could be to cavity size so smaller cells maybe are being produced.

Next someone will be claiming they have found a feral group of Robin hoods men in Sherwood.

I have found small bees often in mating nucs, that nuc larvi do not have got enough food. Bees have been often smaller than usual. It is lack of nurser bees sometimes in the hive compared to larvi. Perhaps small cavities and continuous swarming keeps the colony in unbalance

Robin Hood was clearly feral. And it was the Sherif's fault.
.

 

[Ian123]

And what if they do find they are Amm? - plenty of beekeepers all over the country now buy Amm queens - and lose swarms!
Proves nuffin

Yes there was 1 big supplier who sold them from Greece

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I hope they don't disturb any picknicking teddybears when they're crashing around the unergrowth looking for bee nests!

 

[Finman]

What a wonderful story for a Sunday morning newspaper read rather than the usual doom and gloom .

Yes, better than "the end of the humankind within 4 years".

 

[Martinreed]

No, Filipe lives about 10 miles from me and is much more experienced.

He has 40-50 years' experience in Portugal, Africa, America and Britain. Worth listening to - he has a wider perspective than most of us who have operated in one country.

Filipe Salbany Physiologist Oxford University & Wild Bee Manager at Blenheim Palace at BLENHEIM PALACE HERITAGE FOUNDATION Oxford, United Kingdom

 

[Finman]

Filipe Salbany Physiologist Oxford University & Wild Bee Manager at Blenheim Palace at BLENHEIM PALACE HERITAGE FOUNDATION Oxford, United Kingdom

That issue becomes even more strange .

But I looked that professor. He is professor in sporting science. A bicyclist. Perhaps he does not understand much about evolution and about species formation.

I would say, that the time after Ice Ace is not enough to create own honeybee race to Britain.. many have tried to do that.

Tamar Valley honeybee was one nice try. And it was only one person who believed to it.

There are basic bee races on earth, and I think that there is no need to find them more. World is full of crossings and variations.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How do you manage wild bees?

 

[Finman]

How do you manage wild bees?

They are not wild, if you start to manage them. Perhaps you steal their honey, but not more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm afraid the shutting down of the Sunday Sport left a big gap in some people's dose of weekend gullibility.
Looks like the Observer is trying to fill it!

 

[Finman]

Looks like the Observer is trying to fill it!

It makes you clearly happy

 

[Ian123]

I'm afraid the shutting down of the Sunday Sport left a big gap in some people's dose of weekend gullibility.
Looks like the Observer is trying to fill it!

What was wrong with the Sunday sport

 

[BigAshW]

I picked up a colony from a tree fall in a forest last year. From the state of the comb it was obvious that there had been a colony in that tree for some time however no way of knowing if it was this colony or not.

The bees were very dark and noticeably smaller than mine possibly due to the old natural comb cells slowly reducing in size?

I got them through winter but they never really got going well, had a pretty poor temper and turned out to be pretty chalky so I binned the queen off and United them with another colony.

Maybe I just destroyed the last of the "Apis Melliferer Towieus" from the deep forests of Essex.