Super, up or under?

[rockdoc]

I've been told, and read a lot about placing your winter supers under the brood box. Just wondered what the general consensus was on this forum for this way round. I currently have a super on top of my brood box, but ran into the inevitable problem of queeny laying in the super last year. Whilst not a disaster, I'd be interested in all your thoughts. I intend to go to 14x12 eventually to avoid this issue, but for now......

 

[For want of a better word]

Under for the winter ... RAB will tell you.. bees move the store up !

 

[oliver90owner]

Under for the winter ... RAB will tell you.. bees move the store up !

Most certainly not. I would leave it where the bees would expect it to be naturally - above the brood box. So what if she lays in the super - a Q/E will sort it out in three weeks or less.

 

[For want of a better word]

Under for the winter ... RAB will tell you.... Over for the winter !

 

[rockdoc]

Would that be the "ask 6 beekeepers and get 6 different answers" situation?

 

[The Cumbrian]

Would that be the "ask 6 beekeepers and get 6 different answers" situation?

I thought if you asked 6 beekeepers you got at least 7 different answers!

 

[rockdoc]

Depends whether they are reading seaweed or not.

 

[isc26]

so when is a good time to move that super back on top to stop the queen laying in it?

 

[Finman]

IJust wondered what the general consensus ......

Concencus is not good advice to do sotmething. You should nurse your own hives.
And don't follow what most of guys do.


When I put my hives in wintering order, I put brood frames in lower box, because cluster starts wintering from there,

When you put the second box on, bees start to store and cap food first in upper box.

But, if there is too few bees, they store winterfood first around brood area.

 

[oliver90owner]

Would that be the "ask 6 beekeepers and get 6 different answers" situation?

There you go. Someone reads the post and read 'what they want to read', what they 'want/expect to see', totally mis-read it or maliciously/mischievously change it.

I have never advocated leaving a super of stores under the brood box over the winter. You will not find any post where I have said that . That is for sure.

Misquoting seems to be a good pastime for some. Shame that some do not have a decent opinion of their own, with joined up reasoning to back it up.

Yes, it happens all the time. Perpendicular or angled stand legs, or in-bucket melters are two recent examples of where posters either fail to grasp the basic facts (or bend them) or answer a completely different question than asked. Little wonder there are so many confused readers out there - some cannot read properly, some cannot address the question asked and some write a load of bull.

 

[Finman]

I have never advocated leaving a super of stores under the brood box over the winter. You will not find any post where I have said that . That is for sure.
.

You are right Oliver. If super is full of food, its place is top, allways. Besides, its is bees natural order.

 

[For want of a better word]

My confusion... did not realise your super was a super full of stores... not 1/2 brood !

I put 1/2 brood boxes under a brood for winter with a super of stores on top.
If there are any stores in the 1/2 brood the bees will move them up.
I also change brood boxed around for winter if running double brood.
Then I just heft for the winter and do not touch till ?March... or at least the temp is up!
Particularly as taking WBCs apart is a bit of a palava!

RIGHT RAB ....I'M OFF TO DIG ANOTHER HOLE TO JUMP INTO !
Some kind sole tied another bit of sugar kelp to my gate ... it was frozen stiff this morning................ ( think the pigeons had the last bit!)

 

[Hivemaker.]

I also change brood boxed around for winter if running double brood.

Why do you do that.

 

[For want of a better word]

Why do you do that.

Granddad did it !

 

[Fonso]

There is these day's a growing tendency to place a completely empty super under the brood box at the start of winter, the idea is to provide a gap between the brood and the open mesh floor.
A solid wooden floor gave some degree of protection from cold winds and frost, but with a brood box placed directly on a omf it's possible for strong cold winds to be channelled through the frames and a spell of cold weather, when early brood is being laid could chill and kill some brood, delaying the spring build up.
But with a super placed between floor and brood box a buffer is formed between the two allowing the winds to roll around in the empty super while the frames in the brood can even act as a barrier reducing the flow of the cold wind.
I wonder if this is causing some confusion as to where to place a super.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

There is these day's a growing tendency to place a completely empty super under the brood box at the start of winter, the idea is to provide a gap between the brood and the open mesh floor.
A solid wooden floor gave some degree of protection from cold winds and frost, but with a brood box placed directly on a omf it's possible for strong cold winds to be channelled through the frames and a spell of cold weather, when early brood is being laid could chill and kill some brood, delaying the spring build up.
But with a super placed between floor and brood box a buffer is formed between the two allowing the winds to roll around in the empty super while the frames in the brood can even act as a barrier reducing the flow of the cold wind.
I wonder if this is causing some confusion as to where to place a super.

Better to place the super under the OMF- stops the wind while not encouraging brace comb and easier to remove

 

[Beeline]

so when is a good time to move that super back on top to stop the queen laying in it?

I see it as two separate stages.

I have two hives overwintered with super below. From a recent visual inspection through the OMF I see one hive has eaten all the stores in the super and vacated it i.e. they have moved further up and into the brood box. My intention is that on the first warm day (16 degrees) I'm available, I'll remove it and store for later use. That way I can guarantee HM won't start laying in there.

I don't intend to place it above until the OSR flow starts as it'll just create another void to heat unnecessarily.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I have the odd hive on double brood, otherwise I undersuper and it works for my girls. The super will be removed at first inspection - sometime around the end of March or early April depending on whether the weather be hot or whether the weather be cold.

 

[enrico]

I agree beeline.....there is nothing wrong with doing that and it can work successfully. Different horses for different courses I say
E

 

[rockdoc]

Perhaps I need to clarify my OP. The supers I am talking about are full of stores. I take the point about an empty super under, and I also take the point well made by Finman. From what has been added here there appears to be too many variables to be definitive. (different floors etc). When the thread dies out I will re-read them all to try and make my own mind up which way might work for me. But thanks for all your contributions as always.