Unsure if I’ve done the right thing

[Wilfredbuck]

I’ve been looking it up and like most things beekeeping there are multiple answers.

I have a single brood box National - one full super a stores which I am leaving for the bees overwinter - you’ve guessed it, last weekend I have placed the super under the brood box.

Was this the right thing to do? If not can I swap them back now?

The opinions against putting the super under are quite strong and they have put doubt in my mind. If it’s not going to matter either way I will leave them be.

Cheers
W

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The opinions against putting the super under are quite strong

are they? what reasons do they give?
As a starter for ten, it's a bit late to nadir a full super as late as this in the season as it's a lot to expect them to shift it back up over the top of the brood.
And why do you think they need a full super of stores on top of what they will bring in when winter feeding?

 

[Wilfredbuck]

are they? what reasons do they give?
As a starter for ten, it's a bit late to nadir a full super as late as this in the season as it's a lot to expect them to shift it back up over the top of the brood.
And why do you think they need a full super of stores on top of what they will bring in when winter feeding?

Do you think I should move it back to the top of the brood box?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you think I should move it back to the top of the brood box?

If it has capped honey for them then yes, and take away any QX
Think where bees keep their honey if you let them.
Next year try doing without the super for winter. They don’t really need it unless the colony is big, in which case it needs double brood

 

[ericbeaumont]

opinions against putting the super under are quite strong

Do you think I should move it back to the top of the brood box?

Digest all opinion but make your own decision and as you've already made one, add the outcome to your library of experience (and come back in spring and tell us the result).

If you decide to leave it below, make sure to reduce the entrance to one or two beespaces to avoid interest from wasps.

 

[plain_hunt]

I always nadir my supers, if they have one, and have never had any problems with the bees moving, or not moving, stores. I have had queens laying in the super when I left it on the top, when I was hoping to use it as a super in the spring. Had to wait for the brood to emerge so learnt to put it underneath. Nadiring has never had that problem, but I do need help to pick the brood box up to put the super under it.

 

[Wilfredbuck]

Well I went back in and moved the super back to the top - to be fair the bees are so chilled at the moment. We’ll see how they get on

 

[ericbeaumont]

Well I went back in and moved the super back to the top

What persuaded you, Wilfred?

 

[Wilfredbuck]

What persuaded you, Wilfred?

I did a bit of reading and there was a lot of talk about how it’s not really necessary. Part of me thinks I understand the hive this way around (super above) so it makes sense to keep it this way. I don’t know, this just feels better

 

[ericbeaumont]

not really necessary

True, and you will gain experience whichever way you set them up. Bear in mind that the nest is most likely to be in the super in spring, but unless you want to run brood & half (not a good strategy) just shake the bees down, put a QX on the BB and the super on top of that.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Well I went back in and moved the super back to the top - to be fair the bees are so chilled at the moment. We’ll see how they get on

Your choice but come spring your super will rapidly be laid up with eggs.
As a point of debate, I'd suggest you stop asking the world for their (conflicting) opinions or it'll drive you crazy trying to keep up. I nadir and unless I'm slow off the mark in spring the shallow boxes are clear of brood.

 

[pargyle]

Your choice but come spring your super will rapidly be laid up with eggs.
As a point of debate, I'd suggest you stop asking the world for their (conflicting) opinions or it'll drive you crazy trying to keep up. I nadir and unless I'm slow off the mark in spring the shallow boxes are clear of brood.

It's not that much of a problem ... most colonies are too big for a single national brood box and if they are laying up in the super then by that point they probably need a second brood box. I run 14 x 12's without queen excluders and often get brood in the first super when the spring build up is in full flow but as the brood emerges they backfill with honey and she's back down in the brood box laying. With standard nationals it's just a case of managing the space ...

 

[ericbeaumont]

suggest you stop asking the world for their (conflicting) opinions or it'll drive you crazy trying to keep up

John makes a blunt yet valuable point, Wilfred, and explains why I asked you five easy questions which would have led you to an independent decision. That you chose not to respond suggests that you prefer to settle for quick textbook answers, but the plain fact is that straightforward and correct solutions are rare in this fluid beeworld of variable factors.

If it’s not going to matter either way I will leave them be.

At the moment you're deciding & changing your mind without knowing why, but your decisions will become authentic when you develop the ability to think like a bee, to observe bees' response to stimuli, to act in tandem with bees, to consider the effect of the local environment and ways to get the best out of the hive itself. Plenty of time for all that as beekeeping is a long game, but better that you learn now not to rely on groupthink decisions.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I asked you five easy questions which would have led you to an independent decision.

Was that in a PM? (I'd like to have seen them!)

 

[ericbeaumont]

Was that in a PM? (I'd like to have seen them!)

No, but I will PM Wilfred to apologise, as the questions were in answer to a similar post from Graeme about feeding & winter weight. Conflation of posts demonstrates dangers of posting late at night...

Graeme wanted to know which was the 'right' place to put a super of stores on a 1BB colony and which place 'should' he choose. This is what I asked:

1 What is your instinctive reaction to the weight when you heft at the back with one hand?
2 Is ivy flowering and are bees foraging?
3 How many frames of brood does each colony have?
4 Did you run them on double brood during the season?
5 If so, why did you condense them?
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/over-winter-hive-set-up.57500/#post-916933

the right thing to do

should move it back

Wilfred used almost the same wording and I aimed to emphasise that there is no right or wrong in beekeeping and that decisions must be driven by information gleaned from the hive set-up, and not from a textbook. Tricky for a beginner, granted, but the sooner that observation informs practical actions, the better.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

No, but I will PM Wilfred to apologise, as the questions were in answer to a similar post from Graeme about feeding & winter weight. Conflation of posts demonstrates dangers of posting late at night...

Graeme wanted to know which was the 'right' place to put a super of stores on a 1BB colony and which place 'should' he choose. This is what I asked:

1 What is your instinctive reaction to the weight when you heft at the back with one hand?
2 Is ivy flowering and are bees foraging?
3 How many frames of brood does each colony have?
4 Did you run them on double brood during the season?
5 If so, why did you condense them?
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/over-winter-hive-set-up.57500/#post-916933

Wilfred used almost the same wording and I aimed to emphasise that there is no right or wrong in beekeeping and that decisions must be driven by information gleaned from the hive set-up, and not from a textbook. Tricky for a beginner, granted, but the sooner that observation informs practical actions, the better.

Thanks, that's very helpful and interesting. Your questions to Graeme are a wonderful demonstration of the sort of thing that we might ponder (ideally) as we stand in front of the hive and say, what now?

In a sense answers are easy in that they come from questions. Where questions come from is not so straightforward, and our ability to progress at anything is, I think, limited but being able to ask the relevant (and leading) questions. That's not easy, and explains why many of us end up looking for answers from others. A long time ago, I digested (it took weeks) a book (Metaphysics, Coreth) about questioning the question. I can't honestly say it has provided me with more insight, or ability to ask the right questions!