Sunrise today

[Erichalfbee]

15 January for me in Lampeter has 9.57 the next day 10.01

 

[Darryl]

definitely - opened the pophole on the henhouse at the usual time this morning (before logging on to my Home Office treadmill) and no sign of them venturing out - I opened the door to make sure all was OK to be met with looks of disgust as they had no intention of stirring off their perches for a while yet

Of course everyone knows that it's to allow a few extra minutes for Santa to deliver the presents. Please be patient with the old sod and we can then get on with the 2023 season prep after he signs off for another year.

 

[JamezF]

Persephone period

I'd never heard of this. Perhaps for those of us in the UK the period is so long that we don't really worry about it. I found this page:

Daylight Hours Explorer

that suggests for me it lasts from 25th October to 16th February -- more than one third of the year. I'm going to guess based on your location that for you it's perhaps closer to six weeks.

James

 

[JamezF]

15 January for me in Lampeter has 9.57 the next day 10.01

Well that doesn't seem right based on the page I just linked to, which says February 18th for 51.2°N. Looks like they're measuring different things or one source of data is wrong

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well that doesn't seem right based on the page I just linked to, which says February 18th for 51.2°N. Looks like they're measuring different things or one source of data is wrong

James

Stupid me. February.
Thank you James. Keep me right.
I had to look up Persephone period too.

 

[JamezF]

Stupid me. February.
Thank you James. Keep me right.

Aha!

I found this other page on the USNO site that generates a list of sunrise/sunset times for an entire year, so I was able to generate them for 2022 and then 2023 (by changing the year in the URL). That suggests that 15th February 2023 is the last day of this winter with less than ten hours daylight for my location. Ironically, that's my birthday.

Table of Sunrise/Sunset, Moonrise/Moonset, or Twilight Times for an Entire Year

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/@2644981?month=2&year=2023

 

[JamezF]

There's a nice explanation of why it's called the Persephone Period here:

#9 The Persephone Period - Gardening with a Madman

I have to admit that I wasn't aware of the story of Persephone either. I was just discussing it with my son who, as soon as I mentioned it, said "Oh, yes, because of Demeter not being able to find her and the plants dying...". I hate it when that happens

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have to admit that I wasn't aware of the story of Persephone either.

I knew the story, it’s always been one of my favourites among the myths.
My daughter often sends me poems to educate my philistine literary soul and strangely this arrived yesterday.

The only legend I have ever loved is
the story of a daughter lost in hell.
And found and rescued there.
Love and blackmail are the gist of it.
Ceres and Persephone the names.
And the best thing about the legend is
I can enter it anywhere. And have.
As a child in exile in
a city of fogs and strange consonants,
I read it first and at first I was
an exiled child in the crackling dusk of
the underworld, the stars blighted. Later
I walked out in a summer twilight
searching for my daughter at bed-time.
When she came running I was ready
to make any bargain to keep her.
I carried her back past whitebeams
and wasps and honey-scented buddleias.
But I was Ceres then and I knew
winter was in store for every leaf
on every tree on that road.
Was inescapable for each one we passed. And for me.
It is winter
and the stars are hidden.
I climb the stairs and stand where I can see
my child asleep beside her teen magazines,
her can of Coke, her plate of uncut fruit.
The pomegranate! How did I forget it?
She could have come home and been safe
and ended the story and all
our heart-broken searching but she reached
out a hand and plucked a pomegranate.
She put out her hand and pulled down
the French sound for apple and
the noise of stone and the proof
that even in the place of death,
at the heart of legend, in the midst
of rocks full of unshed tears
ready to be diamonds by the time
the story was told, a child can be
hungry. I could warn her. There is still a chance.
The rain is cold. The road is flint-coloured.
The suburb has cars and cable television.
The veiled stars are above ground.
It is another world. But what else
can a mother give her daughter but such
beautiful rifts in time?
If I defer the grief I will diminish the gift.
The legend will be hers as well as mine.
She will enter it. As I have.
She will wake up. She will hold
the papery flushed skin in her hand.
And to her lips. I will say nothing.

By American poet Eaven Boland

 

[JamezF]

I knew the story, it’s always been one of my favourites among the myths.

Sadly, beyond The Odyssey and The Aeneid (which I had to study in Latin and is therefore somewhat vague as a result) my knowledge of Greek (and Roman) mythology is somewhat sparse. I guess it just wasn't the sort of subject area that came up that much (outside the deeply thrilling Latin lessons -- who doesn't enjoy chanting repeated conjugations of Latin verbs, after all?) when I was at school.

James

 

[Blunt Spike]

Its the tilt of the earth (23.5°) that shortens / lengthens the daylight hours. This means that the coldest point of the year for the Northern hemisphere is Dec / Jan despite the earth being at its closest point to the sun (Perihelion). The angle slowly changes / fluctuates over thousands of years which has previously lead to very hot periods and ice ages.

 

[JamezF]

This means that the coldest point of the year for the Northern hemisphere is Dec / Jan despite the earth being at its closest point to the sun (Perihelion).

Oh, yes, that's another cosmological "fun fact" The orientation of the planet relative to the Sun, the north pole being tilted towards the Sun during the summer and away from it during the winter (so the Sun gets higher in the sky in summer) has a much greater effect than the shape of the Earth's orbit which is indeed elliptical as we're generally taught, but is still not very far off circular. From memory it only varies by about 2% either way.

James

 

[Moobee]

“red sky in the morning, sheperd’s warning, red sky at night shepherd’s delight”

I always thought the shortest day was the 21st, but I guess not! The sun has been setting not long after 3 here (Scotland), it’s been beautiful with all the snow, the hills are pink just as it sets. This pic doesn’t do it justice at all.

I’ve got a stargazer app on my phone which is quite fun, you point it at the sky at any time and it shows you a simulated version of what’s up there and its location in the sky!

Also had to look up the term MAMIL - always learning!

Red sky in morning, global warming....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Red sky in morning, global warming....

with us (Grandfather was a station sub officer in the AFS during the war,) it's 'red sky in the morning, Swansea's burning

 

[blackcloud]

Red sky night shepherds delight
Red sky morning shepherds warning
Red sky lunchtime shepherds pie.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Went to Stonehenge today for the first time in about 25 years with 3 of the grand children. Cones on the road verges for miles around to deter the crowds expected for the solstice!

 

[Lazy K]

I'd never heard of this. Perhaps for those of us in the UK the period is so long that we don't really worry about it. I found this page:

Daylight Hours Explorer

that suggests for me it lasts from 25th October to 16th February -- more than one third of the year. I'm going to guess based on your location that for you it's perhaps closer to six weeks.

James

Actually, I think our Persephone period is only 3 weeks long. Which is pretty nice. Too bad our Frost Free time is only 4 1/2 months long.

 

[JamezF]

Too bad our Frost Free time is only 4 1/2 months long.

That's probably not too different from mine, oddly enough. Though in recent years frosts haven't been particularly common.

James

 

[Worldsend]

Went to Stonehenge today for the first time in about 25 years with 3 of the grand children. Cones on the road verges for miles around to deter the crowds expected for the solstice!

Yes they take ages to move the stones .....

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sitting in the dark here I looked it up. Sunrise starts getting earlier on January 4th here in Mid Wales
Anybody have an explanation why the day starts lengthening at sunset first?