Sugar dusting

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We're not bickering. HM would have to delete the last 4 pages if we were! ;-)

The question was answered, complete with reference. Now we're discussing whether sampling techniques are enough or whether we want to kill the bees and have a 100% accurate figure. :icon_204-2:

Do not worry. 2-hive owners use to be 100% right, and top bar owners are 200% right.
 
We're not bickering. HM would have to delete the last 4 pages if we were! ;-)

The question was answered, complete with reference. Now we're discussing whether sampling techniques are enough or whether we want to kill the bees and have a 100% accurate figure. :icon_204-2:

Kill 'em all, at least you'd get your answer ;)
 
Yes, I have a education of university researcher in biology. I have studied some statistics too. And I can say, that you need only kill mites. No sampling and no counting.

Keep the mites heads down. No matter, are they 100 or 1000.

It's a good philosophy. Treat regardless of mite levels.
Saves all this counting.
B+ doesn't treat and is trying to breed hygienic bees, so needs some sort of evidence that his bees are coping with varroa. Or so I assume.
Pargyle doesn't treat and counts mites daily just in case he needs to become a midnight thymoler.

I can see a trend here :)
 
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Soo, to get back to the OP, the results of dusting with icing sugar is not a good indication of your total Varroa count.

Would our experts agree?

C'mon, get over your bickering and answer the original NEWBEE question!!

I have not read all of the science involved- it's over my heed!
However, the purpose of my OP, was to point out that sugar dusting gave me a very clear indication (that I had not gained from natural drop). Compared to the other 3 one of my hives had a much bigger mite population.

I don't mind all the debate as I wasn't looking for advice really.
 
If you do so, you’d want to adjust for the generally lower infestation rate of those bees—for example, our normal late-season treatment threshold is 6 mites per half-cup alcohol wash, so we’d adjust it down to 5 mites. I’d appreciate it if anyone were willing to help us collect additional data.

This is the thing i would like to know, the difference in numbers, guess the best thing to do would be collect two samples each time, over say 100 tests at various times during the season, and see how the difference in numbers averages out.
 
Compared to the other 3 one of my hives had a much bigger mite population.-

Might be, but there is one factor which you may have overlooked. Well probably definitely. Certainly didn't mention the important proviso for your conclusion, in your first post.

Brood, particularly capped. Think about it.
 
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Mites double themselves in a month. You should have under 10 mites after winter, that mites does not violate winter cluster bees next autumn.

march 10
april 20
may 40
june 80
july ....160
august ....320
september...640
ochtober ....1280... critical limit


If you have 100 mites at the start

march 100
april 200
may 400
june 800.........critical limit goes over. You should treat with honey yield
july 1600
august 3200
september...6400
ochtober ...12 800
 
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It's a good philosophy. Treat regardless of mite levels.

Pargyle doesn't treat and counts mites daily just in case he needs to become a midnight thymoler.

I can see a trend here :)

DON'T DRAG ME INTO IT ... half my posts get deleted as it is without you telling everyone that I walk on the dark side and look at my bees at midnight !! (and yes ... just been out with the torch - lots of lovely Ivy smells coming from all the colonies and they are humming like the Treorchy Male Voice Choir ...). Looking good ... but I know my bees will die. Finman says so ... :leaving:
 
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What another domestic animal has such philosophy, that let the pest number first grow to some limit and then we give treatment?

But how you should do, that you treat only when there is no honey yield in the hive?

.
 
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... but I know my bees will die. Finman says so ... :leaving:[/QUOTE]

Erm, they all shall die! as do we! In defence of Finman I see much merit in making life more simple, you might call it blanket micro management as opposed to micro management, either one works! that's why bees is bootiful peeple:serenade:
 
DON'T DRAG ME INTO IT ... half my posts get deleted as it is without you telling everyone that I walk on the dark side and look at my bees at midnight !! (and yes ... just been out with the torch - lots of lovely Ivy smells coming from all the colonies and they are humming like the Treorchy Male Voice Choir ...). Looking good ... but I know my bees will die. Finman says so ... :leaving:

I know the feeling.. creeping into the apiary at midnight with my 12volt 2000 Ah battery and leads snaking away from it to the Varrox... the wonderful aroma of ivy honey, the low hum of the bees and the hiss of the Oxalic Acid being vaporised.

AND any critical comment about saving icing sugar for buns postings on this otherwise open forum... immediately taken down!!

Yeghes da
 
... but I know my bees will die. Finman says so ... :leaving:

Erm, they all shall die! as do we! In defence of Finman I see much merit in making life more simple, you might call it blanket micro management as opposed to micro management, either one works! that's why bees is bootiful peeple:serenade:[/QUOTE]

Actually - at the risk of wasting more words as HM's blue pencil fodder - I'll just put a few things straight.

1. I don't COUNT mites on the inspection board daily - I used to but the drop is so low (and consistently so) that my records graphically over the last few years have shown very little but a straight line - daily drops from all my hives - being only one or two mites - some days none at all. There have been occasions where there have been 'spikes' on some hives with the most drop I ever saw being 47 in a day. I was a bit worried at that (last season) and I was ready to treat that hive (nervously twitching with my hand on the OA) but it rapidly dropped down to its normal level where it has remained ever since.

2. So these days it tends to be a look at the inspection boards every two or three days, a quick clean off (they are dry correx - not greased) and off we go again. There are mites in the hives but not excessive amounts. There is a 75mm drop from the mesh floor to the inspection board and with regular cleaning I don't get problems with wax moths - it's also interesting to see what debris is coming down as well as a look for any dead varroa. I do watch bees on the landing boards and through the clear crownboards and you can tell a lot by just knowing your colonies and seeing what they are up to.

3. I have done four sugar rolls this season - March, May, July and September. I took bees from the brood frames and in all cases there was at most one mite and generally none at all. I've done alcohol washes in the past but these only yielded the same results and killed the bees so I just stick to sugar rolls now - the bees don't seem to mind too much.

4. I don't spend an inordinate amount of time 'counting mites' - with six hives, two allotments, a large dog, large garden, woodturning, a wife and a full time job there is not the time available. With one or two hives more was possible but all that I discovered was that my bees seemed to be coping with the level of varroa in the hives, they are healthy (never seen a sign of any brood disease, DWV etc.) and I got a honey crop of over 30lbs per hive from the two strongest colonies. In my area most beekeepers are reporting lower average yields than that this year (and some none at all) so I'm happy with what they have produced.

Despite Finnie's comments I'm not a 'let alone' beekeeper - I'm prepared to treat if the colonies look as though the mites are getting the upper hand but, at present, they're not. So ... treatment free they are going to be again. :sunning:
 
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