Still big varroa drop

[For want of a better word]

Varomoor offers a solution of OA and Thymol dissolved in absolute ethanol 98% ( Not 40% Vodka!) three applications of vapourised mite destroyer straight into the entrance over four days.
Either this does not work on Cornish Black Native bees or they are VSH by default... it works a treat on my bees of Mediterranean origin!

Yeghes da

 

[rook66]

Varomoor offers a solution of OA and Thymol dissolved in absolute ethanol 98% ( Not 40% Vodka!) three applications of vapourised mite destroyer straight into the entrance over four days.
Either this does not work on Cornish Black Native bees or they are VSH by default... it works a treat on my bees of Mediterranean origin!

Yeghes da

Varomoor?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is that using one of those gas canister powered vaporisers?

 

[Beefriendly]

Is that using one of those gas canister powered vaporisers?

They are foggers not vaporizers.
Randy Oliver has lots of bad things to say about them on his scientific beekeeping web site..
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/

 

[Erichalfbee]

They are foggers not vaporizers.
Randy Oliver has lots of bad things to say about them on his scientific beekeeping web site..
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/

OK
Is that using one of those gas powered FOGGERS?

 

[Beefriendly]

The problem I keep coming across is people think they are vaporizers....which they aren't.
They have a totally different mechanism of delivery and I think it's important that bee keepers don't get them confused.

 

[For want of a better word]

They are foggers not vaporizers.
Randy Oliver has lots of bad things to say about them on his scientific beekeeping web site..
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/

Used FRESH mix of OA + thymol with pure ethanol as in the instruction booklet supplied with the Varomoor device

I would as a trained scientist say that the OA was fully vaporised as it sublimated onto a cold watch glass if held over the stream of vaporised product issuing from the nozzell.

I have just experimented with some OA dissolved in water and the product coming out of the vaporiser ( or is it fogger?) looked more like steam, and remained liquid on cooling.
The not so scientific experiments used by our American friend used a weak solution of OA in water and no thymol... thymol would not dissolve in water.

Going back a few years on this forum I recall the previous incarnations of thymallus truble et all discounting the Varrox and similar OA vaporising devices as being devices of the heretic!

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

I would as a trained scientist say that the OA was fully vaporised as it sublimated onto a cold watch glass if held over the stream of vaporised product i

Total and utter tosh...... just about what we have come to expect from your posts.
Ohhhh and your memory is going gaga as well.

 

[For want of a better word]

Total and utter tosh...... just about what we have come to expect from your posts.
Ohhhh and your memory is going gaga as well.

... Quite why you have to take on this stance appearing to post to cause antagonism, not stimulating any debate of any worth to the more intelligent beekeeping community.

Kick the ball not the player

Yes we are revisiting the big Vaporiser question once again.
All I can say is that in my opinion the device that is called the Varomoor Vaporiser is not a fogger when used with vaporisable substances that are not in an aqueous solution.

From talking to Randy Oliver at the BIBBA convention in the Isle of Man, the "fogger" they experimented with was something like this
eBay item number:
182634161370

which bears a superficial resemblance to the device I have used

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

I would as a trained scientist say that the OA was fully vaporised as it sublimated onto a cold watch glass if held over the stream of vaporised product issuing from the nozzell.

It's very surprising that a supposed trained scientist does not appear to understand what sublimation is...even worst he gets it totally the wrong.

sublimation. (sŭb'lə-mā'shən) The process of changing from a solid to a gas without passing through an intermediate liquid phase.

 

[Finman]

It's very surprising that a supposed trained scientist does not appear to understand what sublimation is...even worst he gets it totally the wrong.

sublimation. (sŭb'lə-mā'shən) The process of changing from a solid to a gas without passing through an intermediate liquid phase.

That is easy to read from what ever book. And it doesn not help you even if you know how it happens in the hive darknes.

It is not long time ago when some kind of scientists said that heating makes formic acid from OA.

Ordinary beekeepers can imagine what ever, but scientists are mostly wrong.


But I can say that OA dribbling has been invented 20 years ago, and still scientic beekeeper Randy Oliver try to clear out, is the dribbling usefull. And some insist that it is harmfull.

.
.

 

[For want of a better word]

It's very surprising that a supposed trained scientist does not appear to understand what sublimation is...even worst he gets it totally the wrong.

sublimation. (sŭb'lə-mā'shən) The process of changing from a solid to a gas without passing through an intermediate liquid phase.

So you are saying that as the OA is in a solution of ethanol ( as a carrier) the OA is entering a liquid phase?

However the gas that was emitted from the Varromoor nozel sublimated onto a cold watch glass as a solid crystalline substance.

When the OA was dissolved in water as the carrier the gas emitted from the Varomoor nozel condensed on the cold watch glass as a liquid.

I carried out these schoolboy chemistry tests as it would have been far cheaper to use water as a carrier that 98% ethanol... which is difficult and quite expensive to obtain!

Reading into "foggers" most seem to use kerosene or even petroleum spirit as a carrier.... I do not advise beekeepers to use that on their bees.

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.

I carried out these schoolboy chemistry tests da

I trust what researchers develope those treatments. I am not going to invent my own recipes even if I have university chemistry. Coloss Project is one which researches new methods. But as far as I know, it has not found much new systems.

 

[Beefriendly]

However the gas that was emitted from the Varromoor nozel sublimated onto a cold watch glass as a solid crystalline substance.

Oh dear! Perhaps basic chemistry is not for you; similar to varromoor in a google search, nonsensical.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Nice summary
Any suggestions on how we investigate further?
Or do we do as Erica suggested and limit our OAV to 3-4 sessions and if there is still a large drop then switch to something else?

The difficulty, as I see it, of investigating further is that you have to identify the "problem" hives and this is probably only possible if the hives are close to the beek - i.e. in their garden. I can testify to the time-consuming nature of carrying out a mites count on a daily basis and it's only if you do this do you identify both the "problem" hives and the trends in mite drop. If your apiaries are 5 miles away or more, you probably only visit once a week so spotting trends is not so easy.

"Problem" hives may be quite common but as most beekeepers do not do regular routine monitoring before and after treatment there may be , say, 1 in 10 hives that continues to have a significant infestation even after treatment and goes into winter like that so that the health of winter bees is compromised. That hive dies in the spring and its demise is put down to some other explanation.

I thought the cause might be associated with the way certain passive vapourisers work but Beef's using an active vapouriser that should squirt OA vapour under pressure into all parts of the brood chamber, even when it's crowded with bees.

The question that's lurking at the back of my mind is "are we breeding a strain of mites that are phoretic for only 1 or 2 days because strains that are on bees for longer than that get zapped by condensing OA crystals?" Surely, OA sublimation is too recent a human activity for this to be happening. Answers on a postcard please and do try to stay on topic!

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

Oh dear! Perhaps basic chemistry is not for you; similar to varromoor in a google search, nonsensical.

Just a simple honors degree... nothing like your professorship

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

I can testify to the time-consuming nature of carrying out a mites count on a daily basis and it's only if you do this do you identify both the "problem" hives and the trends in mite drop. If your apiaries are 5 miles away or more, you probably only visit once a week so spotting trends is not so easy.

CBV it matters not if you don't inspect for a week or so, as long as you leave the drop boards in. You should see a few mites on the ones that have responded well and tons on the problem hive. No need to count daily or spend a lot of time over it, a quick visual inspection will tell you all you need to know. It's what I do. The hard bit is if your problem hive is in an out apiary it requires a lot of visits...it might be more time effective to move them closer to home...it would certainly eliminate the robbing idea if they continue to drop lots of mites.

 

[Beefriendly]

Just a simple honors degree.[/QUOTE}

 

[MuswellMetro]

I see the cabin fever has come early this year,hopefully it wont be a pandemic by March

 

[For want of a better word]

I see the cabin fever has come early this year,hopefully it wont be a pandemic by March

But counting mites may make up for their terrible season for honey

I think this thread has run its course now!

Nos da