Starvation warning ⚠️

[JamezF]

Looked at a May swarm today that has almost no capped stores, very little in the way of uncapped stores and hasn't even drawn a full box of frames. At this point I'm thinking feeding would be sensible if only to encourage them to get the frames drawn out. Typically they'd be flying until November-ish given the way the weather has been for the last few years so there's plenty of time to actually collect food for winter yet, but I'd feel happier knowing that they have somewhere to put it all

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Looked at a May swarm today that has almost no capped stores, very little in the way of uncapped stores and hasn't even drawn a full box of frames. At this point I'm thinking feeding would be sensible if only to encourage them to get the frames drawn out. Typically they'd be flying until November-ish given the way the weather has been for the last few years so there's plenty of time to actually collect food for winter yet, but I'd feel happier knowing that they have somewhere to put it all

James

Put them in a nuc

 

[JamezF]

Put them in a nuc

If I still have any that may be a good plan, yes. I do actually have a load of 25mm PIR board that I was going to use to make some more nucs, but my remaining supply of tuits are distinctly misshapen.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dummy down the colony to nuc size?

 

[JamezF]

Dummy down the colony to nuc size?

Now that I definitely can do

James

 

[Amari]

Looked at a May swarm today that has almost no capped stores, very little in the way of uncapped stores and hasn't even drawn a full box of frames. At this point I'm thinking feeding would be sensible if only to encourage them to get the frames drawn out. Typically they'd be flying until November-ish given the way the weather has been for the last few years so there's plenty of time to actually collect food for winter yet, but I'd feel happier knowing that they have somewhere to put it all

James

Poor vigour - maybe amalgamate?

 

[JamezF]

Poor vigour - maybe amalgamate?

Certainly that's a possibility, but I'm not sure at the moment.

It was a late May swarm. probably a bit on the small side, that emergency re-queened (no idea why as I saw the queen initially and she looked ok) pretty much as soon as they had comb for raising brood, so haven't had the best of opportunities given how the weather changed.

Ideally I'd like to keep the genetics because they're incredibly gentle, but obviously if they aren't very vigorous then perhaps it's not worth the bother.

James

 

[Sutty]

Certainly that's a possibility, but I'm not sure at the moment.

It was a late May swarm. probably a bit on the small side, that emergency re-queened (no idea why as I saw the queen initially and she looked ok) pretty much as soon as they had comb for raising brood, so haven't had the best of opportunities given how the weather changed.

Ideally I'd like to keep the genetics because they're incredibly gentle, but obviously if they aren't very vigorous then perhaps it's not worth the bother.

James

"Incredibly gentle" - I'd want to keep the genetics too! Poor vigour could be genetic or environmental, and the next generation could be really good!
You could boost them with frames of sealed brood and stores, or if a bit of a flow on could swap position with a strong hive - that has worked well for me previously.

 

[Swarm]

Incredibly gentle could also be because they are small and vulnerable.

 

[Katspur]

Hi, I’m glad I’ve seen this thread. I’m new to bee keeping and have been checking my June colony weekly through the summer. They have had some capped stores in the brood box, and are doing really well, all but one outer frame has been drawn so we put a super on around 3 weeks ago so they had space. When I checked the hive a few days ago the brood box was absolutely loaded with all stages of brood but hardly any of the stores were to be seen! The frames are full of brood. They have started filling 2 of the super frames with uncapped honey.
Should we remove the super and feed them now or leave the super on for them to use - I’ve gone through a million options and I’m really stumped! I don’t want them to freeze in the winter if I leave it on, and do t want them to starve either - any advice would be hugely appreciated!

 

[Swarm]

Hi, I’m glad I’ve seen this thread. I’m new to bee keeping and have been checking my June colony weekly through the summer. They have had some capped stores in the brood box, and are doing really well, all but one outer frame has been drawn so we put a super on around 3 weeks ago so they had space. When I checked the hive a few days ago the brood box was absolutely loaded with all stages of brood but hardly any of the stores were to be seen! The frames are full of brood. They have started filling 2 of the super frames with uncapped honey.
Should we remove the super and feed them now or leave the super on for them to use - I’ve gone through a million options and I’m really stumped! I don’t want them to freeze in the winter if I leave it on, and do t want them to starve either - any advice would be hugely appreciated!

I would remove the super and consider feeding syrup, just enough to build up their stores but not so much they get plugged out.
Did you heft the hive to assess their weight?

 

[ericbeaumont]

remove the super and feed them now or leave the super on

Two distinct reasons to feed: for the next 4-6 weeks to feed the colony, and later (perhaps September) in bulk to supply the colony through winter. Neither of these needs will be met by the tiddly amount in the super, so you may as well take it off, extract and have it.

brood box was absolutely loaded with all stages of brood but hardly any of the stores

This is where lies danger of starvation, so unless there's a flow on in your area (doesn't sound like it) you will need to feed a trickle now to keep the colony engine running. Fit a feeder in daylight but fill it at dusk with 2 litres of syrup when wasp and bee activity is low: bees get excited and if wasps are about they will lock onto it. Don't spill a drop. Repeat regularly until the ivy starts. Watch the ivy buds.

 

[Sutty]

Depends whether there is much coming in at the moment.
If the super went on as foundation there must have been some flow over the last few weeks.
If there is a couple of frames worth in the brood box & they are busy I'd leave it as it is and check again in a few days/a week.
I seem to have a flow from the Himalayan balsalm but you may well be different.

 

[ericbeaumont]

freeze in the winter if I leave it on, and do t want them to starve either

Best winter insulation for bees is more bees so aim to fill to overflowing with bees that one box: keep the queen laying with syrup if not much is coming in. The ivy and heavy feeding later on will give winter stores, but for now, you want to see that queen continue to lay.

 

[Katspur]

Depends whether there is much coming in at the moment.
If the super went on as foundation there must have been some flow over the last few weeks.
If there is a couple of frames worth in the brood box & they are busy I'd leave it as it is and check again in a few days/a week.
I seem to have a flow from the Himalayan balsalm but you may well be different.

They have been very busy with the balsam - all white when they return! I think that is what’s helping with the super?

 

[Katspur]

Two distinct reasons to feed: for the next 4-6 weeks to feed the colony, and later (perhaps September) in bulk to supply the colony through winter. Neither of these needs will be met by the tiddly amount in the super, so you may as well take it off, extract and have it.


This is where lies danger of starvation, so unless there's a flow on in your area (doesn't sound like it) you will need to feed a trickle now to keep the colony engine running. Fit a feeder in daylight but fill it at dusk with 2 litres of syrup when wasp and bee activity is low: bees get excited and if wasps are about they will lock onto it. Don't spill a drop. Repeat regularly until the ivy starts. Watch the ivy buds.

Thank you!

 

[Sutty]

They have been very busy with the balsam - all white when they return! I think that is what’s helping with the super?

It may be. Was the super added as drawn comb or foundation?
They may be just starting to fill the super - I'd be inclined to check if the super is fuller in a few days, if it is you should be able to relax for a while. I'm pretty sure a good proportion of my crop last year was from the balsalm or something at the same time (I only seem to get 30-60% of returning bees that are dusted with pollen, higher in the evening).

 

[ericbeaumont]

that is what’s helping with the super

Yes, it's going in the super but really it will feed brood & bees in the immediate future. If you leave it on later this summer, nadir it with an entrance reduced to one beespace: the bees will clean it out and and pack the honey into the BB.

Did you heft the hive as Steve suggested? One hand at the back of the floor, lift it an inch. If it's heavy, it's heavy, if light, you know to keep an eye on the balsam yield and feed if necessary.

 

[Malcolm B.]

Ivy is only just around the corner.

Why would adding a little spare food - just in case - be an 'over reaction'?

My car ran out of petrol and stopped 100 yards from a petrol station - would carrying a spare gallon be an 'over reaction' or just prudent?

 

[blackcloud]

A common over reaction is reading the headline,panicking and whacking a full rapid feeder on without checking the status first and then crippling available brood space.

Btw if you look at the gauge once in a while you don't run out of fuel.....