Smoker...should it be used at entrance before inspections?

[fiat500bee]

This might seem to be a no-brain of a question; but a document which I downloaded from BeeBase which was produced by FERA says not to smoke the entrance before inspecting as this drives bees upwards where you don't want them to be. Last week I followed that advice and for the first time out of the eight inspections on the two hives I have, some of the bees flew up to disrespect" me.

Today I ignored that advice and gave the bees a taster of smoke at the entrance before a small sample under the crownboard and both squads of bees were very well behaved; the Buckfast Beauties were particularly docile.

So are the "experts" out of touch with reality or is their advice on this matter generally worthwhile following?

 

[joelsoo]

i do smoke the bees at the entrance, but not to the point of smoking alot to annoy them, just a gentle puff, enough for them to get the note that i am coming, then lift off roof.

i do find just using little smoke goes a long way. keep an eye on the ones that guards the frames (if they look like they are lookign at you, they are!) one or 2 Gentle puffs at these ones that look at you guarding the frames, and they will go down, there is no need to smoke heaps, as its unnecessary to get them completely annoyed.

 

[hemo]

I never smoke the entrance but do sometimes give a puff under the OMF, and then an occasional from the top.

 

[understanding_bees]

One piece of advice that I have been given is that the best time to do inspections is during the day when the foragers are likely to be away from the hive.

 

[Michael ECB's]

I always give a small puff in front, wait a few seconds then lift lid and give another one over the frames, lower lid again for at least a minute... I use the time to check zippers on hood and inspect gloves for damage... Unfortunately, when going through several hives at a time, they get a slightly heavier smoking as they seem to be more aggressive- Fact is, they are not getting that little of of time to settle down. My opinion anyway..

What I do find fascinating and do at every opportunity... On a windless/calm day, I try and slowly/gently blow a heavier thicker white cloud of smoke in front of hive entrances, Not In - just in front ( I use 2 x 50mm entrances on each side of most boxes ) Then watch the smoke get drawn in by the bees own "ventilation system" always leaves me in awe at how much air movement they are capable of... Amazing !

 

[drex]

I crack the crown board and give a puff under it, then wait a few seconds. I do similar when I remove a box.
Too much smoke can make the bees aggressive. I always have a smoker lit, but do not always use it

 

[Erichalfbee]

I sometimes let some smoke drift in front of a hive but more often than not if a colony gets smoke it’s a tiny puff under the crownboard. Most of the time they get nothing but a little to clear bees out of the way when putting boxes back. You get to know each colony. Smoker is always lit but little used. If I’m gentle and don’t bang stuff about the bees are fine

 

[coffindodger]

Just a little around the entrance side of the hive, then wait a minute before opening and use a puff to suggest to them that they shouldn't fly towards you. As said, colonies vary and you get to know your own bees. Interestingly
In Brazil, where they have Africanised bees, it is common to flood the apiary with smoke then leave for a while before carrying out inspections.

 

[Madge]

... I downloaded from BeeBase which was produced by FERA says not to smoke the entrance before inspecting as this drives bees upwards where you don't want them to be. Last week I followed that advice and for the first time out of the eight inspections on the two hives I have, some of the bees flew up to disrespect" me. ... So are the "experts" out of touch with reality or is their advice on this matter generally worthwhile following?

Yes, I think that BeeBase document is basically right. It makes sense - but there will always be exceptions. There might have been another reason why your bees felt grumpy during that inspection (or, perhaps you just gave them a fright when opening the hive).

I light my smoker, but often completely forget about it, and only use a light spray of water - particularly before putting one box back on top of another. I forgot my smoker at home on my last visit to the heather (an hour and a half's drive away) but fortunately did remember my water spray bottle - and that was all I needed. The bees were fine.

PS: When smoking from the top, as people have already said, just open the crown board slightly, and give them a short, gentle puff - that's all. (Sorry about all my PS editing.)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I use very little smoke, In my opinion gouts of smoke pumped into the hive whether at the entrance, under the crownboard, or over anywhere else in most cases just winds the bees up rather than calms them.
This 'Forest fire' theory of them filling their bellies in evacuation mode and this making them calmer is another story which should be catalogued under 'beekeeping myths and magic'

 

[drdrday]

I don't smoke at the entrance, or as I take off the CB or boxes, as I never really saw a logical reason for doing it. It felt to me like trying to rile up and perturb the bees before you even start! I always have the smoker lit, and occasionally smoke bees off of the frame lugs or the box edges when I put the hive back together. However, my bees don't seem to take much notice of smoke!

 

[Curly green finger's]

I sometimes let some smoke drift in front of a hive but more often than not if a colony gets smoke it’s a tiny puff under the crownboard. Most of the time they get nothing but a little to clear bees out of the way when putting boxes back. You get to know each colony. Smoker is always lit but little used. If I’m gentle and don’t bang stuff about the bees are fine

Same for me my nucs never get smoke either.

 

[philipm]

Always have my smoker lit but rarely use it ,only sometimes if I want to drive the bees down into the hive but only a light puff. One hive I had a few years back would go mad at the slightest bit of smoke I could only inspect it with a water spray they were also very aggressive so once the queen was replaced there was no problem.

 

[Arfermo]

I never smoke the entrance but do sometimes give a puff under the OMF, and then an occasional from the top.

Makes no difference to the bees - better under the open (OMF) floor but in the entrance too if you wish. An RBI pal who graduated to MAFF PSD, who inspected by bees some years ago on two occasions when I was new-ish to the hobby always puffed under the OMF and on top once opened.

 

[Michael ECB's]

I use very little smoke, In my opinion gouts of smoke pumped into the hive whether at the entrance, under the crownboard, or over anywhere else in most cases just winds the bees up rather than calms them.
This 'Forest fire' theory of them filling their bellies in evacuation mode and this making them calmer is another story which should be catalogued under 'beekeeping myths and magic'

I must admit, most of the time I probably dont need to smoke as much, truth be told, I think habit here plays a role as this is the way I was shown and the way I have seen others do it... However, I have one of those mental swarms, no matter how slow and carefully you work, you end up triggering them off... I'm referring to a very dark coloured Apis mellifera scutellata which I believe you may be familiar with Mr JBM. (Lesotho & Eastern Cape).. Uncertain if the dark colour is from old Brood comb as it was a "wild caught" colony.. But man, these girls can be nasty if not smoked properly... This colony has been kept apart from my others as I'm keen to see how they produce this season, rumour has it very protective colonies often outproduce the more docile ones.. Time will tell here.
Please note, not all bees are as dark as these, just a handful and usually the ones responsible for stings...
Perhaps they are the exception to the rule...

 

[fiat500bee]

I use very little smoke, In my opinion gouts of smoke pumped into the hive whether at the entrance, under the crownboard, or over anywhere else in most cases just winds the bees up rather than calms them.
This 'Forest fire' theory of them filling their bellies in evacuation mode and this making them calmer is another story which should be catalogued under 'beekeeping myths and magic'

Thank-you for this and for everyone else's replies. I'd already got the message about being frugal with smoke or maybe avoiding it completely and I have used it more as a backup then an attack weapon.

I do think there must be truth in the theory of how the smoke is working the bees because even with a tiny amount yesterday, none of the bees was looking at me as many of them had their heads in a cell of honey, filling their guts in the controlled panic.

But I'm sure it's right to question "the books" and learn from what you see and the experiences of others; it occurred to me yesterday that my Buckfast queen does not shy from the light and scuttle behind the frame as she "should". I see her every time even though I'm not looking for her; she just quietly gets on with her own inspections whenever I'm doing mine and winks at me as we cross paths.

 

[Bevy]

I can't comment on smoke at the entrance as I have a top-entrance hive. However, the smoker I ordered was lost in transit, so I received my first colony before I had one and did several inspections without it (fully suited). When I used a smoker for the first time last week, the behaviour of the bees seemed no different, leaving me to wonder whether it was necessary to use one in future. Maybe I have docile bees, or maybe I'm just such a noob that I can't tell the difference.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

It seems counter intuitive to me to smoke the entrance, which encourages the bees up, then you need smoke to encourage them down.
I never smoke the entrance and find I need very little smoke during inspections. Perhaps the odd puff if they congregate at the lugs of the frames and refuse to move, that’s about all.

 

[happyculteur]

I think the idea is that the smoke masks the pheromone transfer between bees and so less come to defend. Personally when I ran Dadants that I opened up (far more often than was necessary) I didn't use smoke. I judged the colony mood before opening and used a couple of tea towels so only the frame taken out and the one next to it were uncovered. I always had and still have a water mister with me, but only for bees that fly at me. Never into the hive.

 

[enrico]

I always drift a bit across the entrance. More habit than useful! I just like to do things methodically! I talk to them too! Drift the smoke and tell them 'ready or not here I come!'